m00dawg

Actually, I *AM* in Tech Support (Rackspace). Thing is, we're not talking Apples and Oranges. It's Apples and Apples, only one apple costs money, and the other is free but might not work for everyone (you know, like a Green Apple...or something...). Actually that's ironic since we're talking about a library for OS X. I mean, all you need to say is "try this one if you want to be a cheap bastard. If it doesn't work, try the other one. Oh and RTFM." Granted, Apple should fix the problem and include a Java MIDI interface in the OS. OS X has such great MIDI support that I find that quite surprising. Either way, thanks for updating the link!

I disagree, but then again I don't operate the site :) Whomever does should fix the link, however, so it does not do a redirect.

Then would it not be wise to simply include both? MMJ works just fine for me and it doesn't seem to make much sense for confuse people into paying money for a tool they can get under the creative commons license. Either way, the link off the site takes you to a redirect page so it should at least be updated to the current page of the produt (http://www.mandolane.co.uk/)

Any chance miosstudio.midibox.org can be updated to reflect this? The tool mentioned here is free, but the tool linked off miosstudio.midibox.org is now shareware:

Well, cut wires (and I think some LCDs need those to be grounded as well?), add the resistors, and, most importantly, make it look pretty :) My pretty multi-colored ribbon cable will be ugly and severed :)

The official response, I believe, would be yes, you should. In practice, my LCD worked fine with all connections hooked up, but I would say there are no guarantees. If you want to do it right, I would make the changes. I plan switching to 4-bit soon myself, although I'm sort of hoping Smash might update the CORE layout to make it easier to do :)

Just be aware that not all USB<->MIDI interfaces are alike. I use an M-Audio MidiSport 1x1 with my MidiBox and, though it works just fine, it doesn't seem to handle uploading the .HEX files as seamlessly as my M-Audio 2496 (which has MIDI on board). Macs handle MIDI brilliantly so you may not run into the same problems I did, but just a heads up. If you're into surface mount soldering, you can build your own interface as well :) That project is also on the ucapps.de site.

Thanks for all the info! I did solicit some PIC guys on our mailing list, so we'll see what happens. If not it's no huge deal. MB-SID v1 is better than no SID at all and I think it'll get the point across. The only big thing missing is the cool bassline patches, but I was going to let people listen to some of the more awesome stuff with fully realized MidiBox-SIDs anyway (like TKs bassline demos...so sweet!). Anyways, I had one more question: Fair enough, but I was curious as to if the 4-bit wiring would work on both versions of the MB-SID project? I know for MB-SID v1 8-bit was default but I assume I might be able to change that by simply editing one of the .ASM files? The reason I left it in 8-bit was just in case I had to go back to the old PIC which, oddly enough, is exactly what I had to do :) Either way, you're right. I should buy up a few extra PICs next time I get the chance and you can bet I'll be getting some sort of burner of some sort. I'll keep your suggestions in mind! Sadly, I don't think I will have time to burn the new image at today's hardware meet-up but you never know! Thanks again!

Signs of life! So I figured out a way to access ucapps.de (I VPN'd into work and magically it seems to work there). So I grabbed all the apps I could. So, I uploaded the revision_id test program and got this: 00000000141100 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7 00000000288383 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 38 F7 00000000288488 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 60 F7 00000000288597 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 40 F7 00000000288738 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 60 F7 00000000291044 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7 00000000294648 ms | [B0 27 61] Channel 1: CC LSB 7 (Channel Volume) value: 97 So it IS showing me something at least. Still no LCD and no SID though, but I am going to try some other test apps to see what happens.

Yeah, I wired the LCD in 8-bit mode initially so all the pins are connected. I know the docs said that might cause freezing / reboots but it seemed to work fine prior to this change. I can also remove the LCD and am still not able to get any response from the PIC other than by way of the initial boot-up Sys-Ex and the Sys-Ex response commands when I attempt to flash it. I don't think I...completely...killed it since it did power-on properly after promptly removing the +14V. Although, I mean you never know. I know hardware that works initially fails later. At least that's the way it is with regular 'ole PCs. As for the bootloader, are you saying, in other words, that, even though the PIC is responding via MIDI and appears to upload the new code, it probably isn't (or isn't doing it right anyway :) ? Is that something that can happen with extreme voltages or static? I suppose next time around I buy something off SmashTV, I should go ahead and get the JDM :) I might be able to get access to a burner perhaps tomorrow (since there may be some PIC guys at the hardware meet-up). *crossing fingers* Awesome! Sorry I didn't post that the first time around - I was a bit panicky and not thinking clearly :) As for tools in my lab, I don't have anything special. No O-scopes or anything like that. Just a soldering station, multimeter, wire strippers, etc. I'm slowing getting the tools as I get deeper into the MidiBox project, though. Thanks for all your help Stryd! You have been extremely helpful!

Would be happy to! Here is the output after uploading MIOS 1.9F: 00000000006704 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7 00000000026498 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0E 01 00 F7 00000000028804 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7 00000000030460 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 0E F7 00000000030620 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 6E F7 00000000030774 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 6D F7 00000000030927 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 19 F7 00000000031084 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 4E F7 00000000031241 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 76 F7 00000000031394 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 07 F7 00000000031547 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 79 F7 00000000031700 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 0E F7 00000000031857 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 21 F7 00000000032010 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 77 F7 00000000032164 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 2C F7 00000000032321 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 51 F7 00000000032474 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 4F F7 00000000032628 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 00 F7 00000000032785 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 5A F7 00000000032939 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 2C F7 00000000033092 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 04 F7 00000000033244 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 32 F7 00000000033398 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 68 F7 00000000033553 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 34 F7 00000000033705 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 6B F7 00000000033858 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 74 F7 00000000034014 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 57 F7 00000000034166 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 5A F7 00000000034319 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 01 F7 00000000034471 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 10 F7 00000000034624 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 3A F7 00000000034777 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 79 F7 00000000034930 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 67 F7 00000000035086 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 1A F7 00000000035239 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 22 F7 00000000035392 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 2D F7 00000000035544 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 63 F7 00000000035698 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 16 F7 00000000035851 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 31 F7 00000000036003 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 2C F7 00000000036157 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 2A F7 00000000036309 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 23 F7 00000000036462 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 65 F7 00000000036614 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 2D F7 00000000036768 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 65 F7 00000000036922 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 72 F7 00000000037075 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 7E F7 00000000037229 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 22 F7 00000000037381 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 60 F7 00000000037534 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 40 F7 00000000037687 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 39 F7 00000000037929 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 0E F7 00000000038081 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 22 F7 00000000038234 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 08 F7 00000000038393 ms | Sysex message: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 0B F7 And here is the output from the HEX Upload pane: Starting upload of mios_v1_9f_pic18f4685.hex Hex file contains code in MIOS range, forcing reboot! Received error code 01: Less bytes than expected have been received This was an expected error - please ignore! Received Upload Request Sending block 00000400-000004FF Received Checksum: 0E - OK Sending block 00000500-000005FF Received Checksum: 6E - OK Sending block 00000600-000006FF Received Checksum: 6D - OK Sending block 00000700-000007FF Received Checksum: 19 - OK Sending block 00000800-000008FF Received Checksum: 4E - OK Sending block 00000900-000009FF Received Checksum: 76 - OK Sending block 00000A00-00000AFF Received Checksum: 07 - OK Sending block 00000B00-00000BFF Received Checksum: 79 - OK Sending block 00000C00-00000CFF Received Checksum: 0E - OK Sending block 00000D00-00000DFF Received Checksum: 21 - OK Sending block 00000E00-00000EFF Received Checksum: 77 - OK Sending block 00000F00-00000FFF Received Checksum: 2C - OK Sending block 00001000-000010FF Received Checksum: 51 - OK Sending block 00001100-000011FF Received Checksum: 4F - OK Sending block 00001200-000012FF Received Checksum: 00 - OK Sending block 00001300-000013FF Received Checksum: 5A - OK Sending block 00001400-000014FF Received Checksum: 2C - OK Sending block 00001500-000015FF Received Checksum: 04 - OK Sending block 00001600-000016FF Received Checksum: 32 - OK Sending block 00001700-000017FF Received Checksum: 68 - OK Sending block 00001800-000018FF Received Checksum: 34 - OK Sending block 00001900-000019FF Received Checksum: 6B - OK Sending block 00001A00-00001AFF Received Checksum: 74 - OK Sending block 00001B00-00001BFF Received Checksum: 57 - OK Sending block 00001C00-00001CFF Received Checksum: 5A - OK Sending block 00001D00-00001DFF Received Checksum: 01 - OK Sending block 00001E00-00001EFF Received Checksum: 10 - OK Sending block 00001F00-00001FFF Received Checksum: 3A - OK Sending block 00002000-000020FF Received Checksum: 79 - OK Sending block 00002100-000021FF Received Checksum: 67 - OK Sending block 00002200-000022FF Received Checksum: 1A - OK Sending block 00002300-000023FF Received Checksum: 22 - OK Sending block 00002400-000024FF Received Checksum: 2D - OK Sending block 00002500-000025FF Received Checksum: 63 - OK Sending block 00002600-000026FF Received Checksum: 16 - OK Sending block 00002700-000027FF Received Checksum: 31 - OK Sending block 00002800-000028FF Received Checksum: 2C - OK Sending block 00002900-000029FF Received Checksum: 2A - OK Sending block 00002A00-00002AFF Received Checksum: 23 - OK Sending block 00002B00-00002BFF Received Checksum: 65 - OK Sending block 00002C00-00002CFF Received Checksum: 2D - OK Sending block 00002D00-00002DFF Received Checksum: 65 - OK Sending block 00002E00-00002EFF Received Checksum: 72 - OK Sending block 00002F00-00002FFF Received Checksum: 7E - OK Sending block 00003000-000030FF Received Checksum: 22 - OK Sending block 00003100-000031FF Received Checksum: 60 - OK Sending block 00003200-000032FF Received Checksum: 40 - OK Sending block 00003300-000033FF Received Checksum: 39 - OK Sending block 00007C00-00007CFF Received Checksum: 0E - OK Sending block 00007D00-00007DFF Received Checksum: 22 - OK Sending block 00007E00-00007EFF Received Checksum: 08 - OK Sending block 00007F00-00007FFF Received Checksum: 0B - OK Upload process complete The acknowledgment responses worked in all cases and usually the PIC would reboot itself to apply the new firmware, but otherwise that was really all the feedback I received. Doh! My apologies for not explaining things better. Here is the sequence of events: 1. Synth works. LCD, SID, Banksticks, etc. Was previously powered by two transformers (1 for core, 1 for SID) CORE stuffed with a PIC 18F4685 2. Built C64 PSU, removed rectifier on CORE, now supplying power via J2 a. The one exception to the optimized PSU is that I have not yet setup a +5V run for the SID itself - it is using the +5V from CORE still 3. Removed chips, tested connections, all OK. Voltages were +5 and +14V as they should be. 4. Stuffed chips. 5. Made first attempt to power-on. Here is one mistake that may have cost me. I accidentally had the +14V hooked up to CORE, but there was no ground (as per the C64 Optimized PSU diagram). I noticed this quickly, powered off and hooked up the +5V/GND. 6. LCD Shows boot-up screen. All appears well. 5. Celebration :) 6. Set components inside case (did not mount them via screws since I was going to test playback, etc. 7. Hooked up remaining components (SID and Banksticks) 8. Powered on, LCD panel showing blocks on upper row :( I thought it might have been my +14V mistake, but CORE powered up just fine after that. The only thing I can think of is static discharge or something like that? 9. Tried various I/O tests. I was able to upload the tests to CORE without issue. But running the tests did not produce any discernible results. LCD test still shows black bars across top. SID test-tone, while it produces a very soft and very high pitched noise, does not sound like a standard test tone (it's much too high and too soft). 10. Stuffed CORE with PIC 18F452 with an already working build of MB-SID 1.7 11. LCD shows boot-up screen. Begins to flash BankSticks (audio output beeps can be heard through SID). Fails on patch 67. 12. Removed Chip on bank 0 and swapped with chip on Bank 7. Format succeeds. 13. Loaded up MB-SID v1 patches via MBSIDPatch program, fired up Cubase, played some notes on my keyboard. Sounds normal. Switching patches work (patches sound as they should). 14. Remove PIC 18F452 and tried PIC 18F4685. Same result as before (black bars on LCD, various tests fail). Anyways those were the steps as I remember them. I hope I wasn't overly explicit but I figure better more information than less :) All signs basically point to the PIC 18F4685 being the culprit. I also found it strange that one of my BankSticks failed on the bad patch with the 452, which leads me to believe static was to blame, or something that otherwise went awry from be testing it on my table to putting it back in my case ("case" is an unfair word - it's a glorified shoebox :). Now I was able to access the SVN repository. I'm having trouble checking it out via the command-line utilities but the web-interface works fine. I'm going to try and install the build-tools to see if I can build the Sys-Ex test script to see if it tells me anything. Beyond that, I can't think of anything else, other than ordering a new PIC, which I ordered yesterday from SmashTV, but will not be hear for Monday's hardware demonstration. Oh well. At least I didn't break the whole thing :) But I'm certainly open to any further suggestions!

Is ucappse.de not responsive for anyone else too? Or does anyone know of a mirror to download some of the MIOS test applications? Mine may be out of date for all I know, but I cannot check since the site never appears to load. :(

Thanks for the suggestions! I took the advise and tried to re-upload MIOS 1.9f. That seemed to work quite well, so I then tried to upload the LCD and SID tests. Neither worked in isolated cases (ie I just hooked up the LCD and CORE and then hooked up the SID and CORE). I also tried the SID Player, but that did not work either. In the case of the SID test-tone, all I really hear is a really high pitched and soft constant tone. Last I checked the test-tone was much lower in pitch and louder. I did notice, however, say when running the LCD test, I do not hear any noise from the SID. So it seems like it is trying to communicate. I still think it may be the chip, though since I can simply pop in my 452 into the socket and everything springs to life. It's basically fully functional running MB-SID v1. Which, I mean, it'll work just fine for the local hardware group meeting, but I am bummed since I cannot show a live test of the bassline mode in action.

So this is just a desperate hope that I might be able to at least figure out what's wrong :) I'm pretty sure I'm screwed but could use a second opinion. I recently created a C64 Optimized PSU and, while, this part is working, in the process of moving all the stuff back into my case, I must have done something as the PIC no longer outputs anything on the LCD panel, nor does it appear to control the SID. That said, I DOES send out MIDI messages and appears to be able to accept uploads via Sys-Ex just fine. I tried uploading various test scripts (SID Testtone, LCD Test), and while they appeared to upload fine, I did not hear the comforting test tone from teh SID. The question I have is if there is any way to figure out what is going on? I don't have an oscilioscope or anything - Just MIOS Studio and a Multimeter. The good news is that I have a working PIC and it appears to control everything fine, but it is a PIC18F452 and, thus, cannot run the SID 2.0 firmware. Which sucks because I was going to showcase all this stuff at a local hardware group meeting on Monday and I wanted to wow everyone with the awesome drum sequencer stuff :) I am guessing there is NO way I can use the SID 2.0 firmware with the PIC18F452 correct? Even if I just have a CORE/SID/LCD/Bank Stick combo?

Haha isn't that the point? That photo rocks!

Whoa that site rocks! Well, after playing around with it I was able to figure it out. It wasn't near as hard as I thought it would be. :) Thanks for all the help everyone! And I agree, someone needs to figure out how to resurrect the site, apart from having to use Wayback :)

Might there be a good doc out there that explains how exactly to set this up? I have the text file, but I'm trying to figure out how to map my sliders and knobs of my M-Audio Axiom and I have yet to be able to make the MB-SID do anything :) I know it has something to do with the MSB/LSB stuff, but that was not entirely clear to me?

+1 for wikification! That really does help! I think I will have to do some experimenting either way but I think I have a good idea about what (or rather what NOT) to do when I wire this thing together. Thanks for everyone's help!

So that means, then, that, as long as the modules link back to the same ground point, I can hook it up however I want? I'm sure I am showing my newb colors but, man, it's had me confused for a few days now :)

Agreed. The demo itself is a pretty cool little song and, knowing it's coming from SIDs is even more awesome! I've been following the MidiBox-SID project for years now and I never really thought SIDs could be made to sound like that! So far, I find myself still listening to the demo at least once a day! Nice work!

Yep. They said ground loops would be possible and/or that it would potentially create more noise. From what I've read, it seems like my design fit the bill for star grounding if I hooked up the headers correctly (I am guessing I would hook each up to the ground point individually? The whole process is surprisingly complicated, or perhaps that is just me being confused :) How does one create a ground loop anyway?

Oh boy...so while we're here I find myself confused with this whole ground loop issue. Using the C64 Optimized PSU, how exactly do I connect the additional modules to avoid ground loops? My original idea was to use 2-pin SIL headers for each module on the PSU board. That way, I can run a cable to each module directly. The idea was so I can move things around if need be, and I can expand more modules as needed (since I only have 1 SID / 1 CORE at the moment). Yes, I will end up with a lot of pin headers, but I figure that makes things easy to expand. After asking around work, I was told I should NOT do that and should, instead, make runs to each module (so say from PSU -> CORE1 -> CORE2). I was thinking of accomplishing that was with a single ribbon cable with periodic connections for each module type (ie one cable for COREs and one for SIDs). I thought about posting this in this thread but that thread seems to have died sometime ago and I haven't really seen a great answer to this. Thanks again! Tim

Thanks for the clarification! I'll try to be more reserved, proper, and critical about these sorts of things :)

My apologies. I was only trying to help as I was not able to find the original answer to my question via the forums (and I thought having good tags would help solve such problems in the future). Is there a standards or suggested tags page I can reference? If not, there should be as the tagging process is not clear. All points you mention in your comment are points that, I thought, were actually valid :)

So I have tried to avoid this at all cost, but think I have run out of options and have to dive into the world of making SIL cables (to mate with the male SIL headers for CORE, and other boards). It seems that the DIL connectors are quite easy to crimp down onto ribbon cable with a pair of pliers. The instructions I saw on Smash TV, and other places, seem to require a special crimp too? Is there any way around this? I asked some of the hardware peeps at work and the recommendation was to use female headers on the boards and then solder the wire to male pins? Thanks (as always)! Tim