sakodak Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Very annoying. And I only decided to go for a blue theme because of the difficulty of getting hold of red 20x4 character displays, without paying a fortune in transatlantic P&P.Nobody is going to make fun of you for having red LEDs with a blue display :) -- besides, it's much easier to change a display out (if you ever run across a red LCD) than it is to change out a bunch of LEDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labelwhore Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I picked up these ones from mouserhttp://www.us.kingbright.com/images/catalog/SPEC/WP7104QBC-D.pdfthey aren't ultrabright and were pretty cheap at $0.18 each when you order over 99 of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Very annoying. And I only decided to go for a blue theme because of the difficulty of getting hold of red 20x4 character displays, without paying a fortune in transatlantic P&P.a|xWhereabouts are you based?I'm eyeing up some red LCDs in the states... $25 for the display and $16 postage. Very expensive, but the only place that I've found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakodak Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Where'd you find the LCDs Goblinz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Whereabouts are you based?I'm eyeing up some red LCDs in the states... $25 for the display and $16 postage. Very expensive, but the only place that I've found.I'm in London, in the UK.a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimchim Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Personally I don't think green LED's would look that bad with a blue/white LCD.......in fact didn't someone already do an mb-6582 like this? thought I remember some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakodak Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I bought red and green LEDs with the intention of doing the matrix (and maybe power) in green and everything else in red.The kicker is that I'm slightly red/green colorblind so I can't tell the difference. I'll have to be very careful and have my wife help me. :) Should be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Anyone want 100 water-clear ultrabright 3mm LEDs, for a MIDI-controlled light-show, perhaps?Free, to a good home ;)a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labelwhore Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Anyone want 100 water-clear ultrabright 3mm LEDs, for a MIDI-controlled light-show, perhaps?Free, to a good home ;)a|xlol, nope. I've got a pile that big of 5mm ones that won't be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakodak Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Some project suggestions for those unused ultrabrights:1) Egg candling station.2) Blinding machine.3) Model airplane runway (this one isn't actually a bad idea, if you fly models, that is.)4) Replace the IR LED in some remotes and then insist that you can't see the flashing light when your significant other complains about it being so bright.5) You've always wanted your very own LED score board, right? Handy for keeping track of who's winning those arguments with the SO.6) Build an LED sign to put in your front window to tell the neighbors what you really think.7) Ground effects for your classic Pinto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Personally I don't think green LED's would look that bad with a blue/white LCD.......in fact didn't someone already do an mb-6582 like this? thought I remember some pics.Wilba's original MB-6582 had blue LEDs, and a green-on-black PLED display.a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimchim Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Here is the one I was thinking:http://www.flickr.com/photos/frederius/sets/72157594404558152/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Just to clarify: ultra-bright or otherwise - blue is still bad. (same goes for all the other colours we mentioned) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Just to clarify: ultra-bright or otherwise - blue is still bad. (same goes for all the other colours we mentioned)So, ALL colours are bad? And white LEDs are bad too. OK, I'm going to hook up some kind of apparatus to automatically light and extinguish tiny candles instead. It will be bigger than the rest of the components by a factor of several, and will require its own gas supply, but there will be no danger of any eye damage at all. Just of explosion. And fire. Small prices to pay, though, as I'm sure you will all agree...;)a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 So, ALL colours are bad?No, just the ones that emit light in a fine, or invisible, frequency band (blue, purple, UV, IR, white, etc)This is a very very scrappy explanation, rushed, full of technical inaccuracies, but hopefully will give you the idea..............See the thing is, our eyes are evolved (designed, made by God, made by aliens, however you think they came to be) to deal with... you guessed it... natural light. In nature, if you see blue, you rarely (never) see *only* primary-blue light. You'll see a little red, a little green, a lot of light-blue, and medium blue, and dark blue, etc... ASCII art time: .... .... .... ..... ... ..... .. ........................... all this .. ...... remember the size of this space! ...IR --- R------------------------------------------------------B --- UVThat 'remember the size of all this space', that's how much energy is hitting your eyes. That's how 'bright' it will seem to be. Your eyes will adjust to the amount of light you have shining in them, to keep them safe. Now, let's say we have a blue LED. because LEDs ain't perfect (what is?) they don't emit this nice broad spectrum of light. What you get is a thin 'spike' around the frequency of the LED. But of course, to 'seem' as bright, it has to carry the same amount of energy, which means that spike has to be a lot taller: keep going ^ || || || || || || || || || || || || || || || || || || || ...... ||||........IR --- R------------------------------------------------------B --- UVTrouble is, your eyes aren't built for this weird unnatural stuff. So they don't see this as being superduperbright. They sense it as though it's more like this: . || || || || ...... ||||........IR --- R------------------------------------------------------B --- UVSo they don't close up like they otherwise would, which lets all this light right on in.It's like stabbing yourself in the eye with a beam of light so thin you can't feel it. You won't know what it's done until you're old, and your eyes start to wear out a lot sooner than they should.It's even worse when the light starts to fall into an invisible spectrum..... And most blue or purple leds also have a UV component.The short version is: Just use red or green. Yeeees, we all know blue looks cool. Get over it :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Wilba's original MB-6582 had blue LEDs, and a green-on-black PLED display.YES and I regret it now.Do you think I would say "Do not use blue LEDs" for no reason?I was most annoyed when I first connected the CS and realised how overpowering the blue LEDs were... and mine were diffused AND in a tinted blue package. I had to use 3K resistors just to get the brightness down to a tolerable level.In retrospect, I should have just replaced them with green LEDs instead of keep it this way... but I hate desoldering and the CS was already attached and I just wanted to play with it a while. Then a combination of being too busy with SID sales and other things meant changing the LEDs was very low priority. It is the prototype after all, and prototypes are meant to teach you what worked and what didn't.BLUE LEDS DO NOT WORK!DO NOT USE BLUE LEDS!The most stupid thing you can do is use blue LEDs just because you have some already, because then you're basically considering the cost of using new ones as more important than the advice given here, and the time and investment you've already put into your MB-SID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 OK, I understand all the explanations given (and thanks for taking the time to make them). What I don't understand is, if our eyes have receptors for Red Green and Blue light, and LEDs, by their very nature tend to emit light over a narrow range of frequencies, why are Red and Green LEDs inherently any better than blue ones, because we're presumably no more used to seeing Primary Green or Primary Red in the natural environment? I guess you're saying the human eye is inherently less sensitive to blue light that other frequencies.I admit defeat though: I'm going for green diffused ones instead.Thanks again guys, and sorry for being so sarcastic in my last post. I do genuinely value your advice.God knows, I'd be lost without it on this project....a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I wish I could be more exact about this, but the general gist of it is that, the chemical process that is used for these lower waelength colours (blue, purple, parts of the white leds), emits a more fine bandwidth of light, than the red or green.I wonder if there's a chemistry nutter (or avid googler) on board who can explain *why* this is... I always wondered why, the more recent the tech, the finer bandwidth and hence more dangerous...ie, why is red > green > blue > white, in bandwidth*, AND in age? Is the finer bandwidth a side-effect of a 'new trick' used to get these colours?*Edited: as nils has pointed out, the bandwidth is not the only thing that effects the safety to the eye... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 The human eye has way more receptors in the red range and especially the green range than the blue range. Hence you need a lot less brightness in the green and red range to make sth appear the same saturation/brightness as sth that's blue. So if a blue LED seems as bright as a green one it's actually a *lot* brighter.Some interesting advice for others since you already made a smart choice:Before soldering your CS, get all the LED candidates that you might wanna use, solder them on a piece of protoboard or stick them on breadboard with socketed resistors for easy change. Power up the whole thing and lay it off to the side of your desk so it's just barely visible in the corner of your eye. Just leave it sitting there for a while. If the brightness of the LEDs is annoying/drawing your attention to it - use bigger resistors or lose some of the colors until the whole thing can sit there lit without hurting your eyes or drawing your attention to it. The LEDs on a control surface are supposed to be indicators, not illuminate the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 beaten by years:http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_base_pcb_construction_guideFor the base PCB, I recommend the following order of soldering (essentially shortest-to-tallest):All resistors that are mounted flat (except R40 to R55, solder these at time of control surface construction!)...http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_control_surface_construction_guideI've suggested not soldering R40-R55 until now. Now you can take a 220 Ohm resistor and insert it into one set of pads of R40-R55 and see how bright the LEDs are. For SmashTV LEDs, 1K will probably be best. If you are using some ultrabright or superbright LEDs, blue or white LEDs, etc. you may want to try 2K, 3K or higher resistors. Keep in mind, what looks like a good brightness as a single LED might become too bright and too much glare when there are many lit at once. It is best to choose a resistor that makes the LEDs a little less bright than the brightest you can handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 beaten by years:Oh yeh, this has been done to death... I do think it's worth nagging toneburst about it though, for the sake of his eyes, and any others' eyes who have not searched about it yet ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Consider me suitably (and appropriately) nagged, guys, and thanks for your concern.Now, with that sorted, I just have to get my mainboard working...and I seem to have trashed one of my core PICs too, now, so I'm a lonnnng way from seeing those green LEDs in action, sadly...Thanks again,a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 What happened to the PIC? you'd be surprised what a fresh MIOS upload /BSL burn can fix :)Anyway maybe that's OT for this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexinoodle Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hmmmm i have decided i am going to try various coatings on these ultra bright blue LEDs just as an experiment to see if i can come up with something that isn't annoying but still has some kind of blue tintI would still like to use Blue illumination to match my Blue LCD but we shall see heheheheheCheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labelwhore Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 you guys have conviced me to go with red leds instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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