stryd_one Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Uhm... maybe I'm being daft, maybe it's just my memory failing as usual... But I cannot remember what the names of the top and bottom numbers in a time signature are... I mean as in, in a fraction, you have numerator and denominator... in a time sig, you have (the top one) and (the bottom one)... Anyone know the correct terms for those? Thanks!Oh look, there's a little castle in my tank....Oh look, there's a little castle in my tank....Oh look, there's a little castle in my tank.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 The upper number indicates how many beats there are in a bar.The lower number indicates the note value which represents one beat.I've never heard a name for the top/bottom numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hmmm. Call me crazy, but I'm not sure they have a name... It's one of those things where you're taught what it means, but not necc what it's called. I've only really heard them called "upper" and "lower"..If you're looking for short but descriptive words that might fit easily on an LCD, perhaps you could use "beats" for the top, and "units" for the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flemming Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks guys. I'm pretty familiar with what it all means, just trying to pin down the name.. I can't get it out of my head that there is a more formal term than upper/lower.... [img width=200]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sF7GLOjfSVM/RzDKdZ39zBI/AAAAAAAAABo/I3-vR8iJ0Xw/s400/IMG_0179.JPG....Maybe not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madox Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks guys. I'm pretty familiar with what it all means, just trying to pin down the name.. The top number is callled '4'The bottom number is called '4'The music is called 'techno', or somethingSeriously though, I imagine there would be obscure latin names for these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futureman Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Seriously though, I imagine there would be obscure latin names for these things.Or Italian... so we've got the language the word is in.. that narrows it down heaps. ;] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Okay so it's a word ending with -us or -o or -i then.... we're getting there :DThe top number is callled '4'The bottom number is called '4'The music is called 'techno', or somethingOMG, I nearly choked. Gold. I will be chuckling at that for weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 No answers from another foum I post on... only thing I can see is that the upper number is the "beat" and the lower number is the "note value" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I thought Techno was in 1/4.Usually the time signature also suggest where accents might lay within a bar. ie, the way 2/4 doesn't sound the same as 4/4, or the way 3/4 doesn't sound the same as 6/8.But if everything is accented, wouldn't it just be called 1/4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Heheh it was mostly joke I think ;) Yeh 'techno' could be lots of time sigs really... But remember it's not just the drums that define the rhythm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 remember it's not the drums that define the rhythm.....So african bands, that can't afford real instruments and have to resort to using bongos only, have no rhythm? Poor africans ;) (yeh I had alter your quote a bit to make it fit)If it helps any: In german they are called "upper" and "lower" as well, sometimes (seeing how they represent a fraction) "numerator" and "denominator". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I think I'm going to come up with a name for them, copyright the term and the use and then collect lots of royalties :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futureman Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I always wanted to do a song about the twin towers in 9/11 time.. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 LMAO at those last 3 posts!!!OT: 9:11:4 sounds great. One of my faves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madox Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 OMG, I nearly choked. Gold. I will be chuckling at that for weeks. ;) Thanks. I enjoyed it, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexinoodle Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Yeah its simply the meter well sort of4/4 would be called meter6/8 would be called compound meter Its kind of a divisible thingSo if the first cant be divided by the second it is compoundHope that helps anywayFlexi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogah Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 To elaborate on what flexi says:if I reach waaaaaaay back to music school, I remember the top number being commonly called the "beat" and the bottom being called the "meter"..but I also sorta remember that there really is no official designator for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think that strictly speaking, meter is the sonic (rhythmic) characteristic that is denoted by time signature...Like you moogah I've heard the upper/lower numbers in the time sig referred to as beat/meter... I don't know if that's strictly correct, but the one I'm really after is the formal term. ... (long pause)Okay while I was writing this I had a lightbulb-moment, and it 'clicked':if the time signature is the scripted notation for meter (as in, if you gotta write down a meter, you use a time signature) then in fact the fractional form we use most commonly, is not the time signature, but only one method of representation of it - as such, the formal terms would be those of any other fraction, ie, numerator and denominator.... So rather than googling to search for an answer (which yielded only "upper/lower" and stuff like "the top one" heh) I googled to confirm/deny that answer... And it seems I'm on the money. So:Numerator and denominator constitute a fractionThe fraction is used as a form of time signatureTime signature denotes meterOK so now I know what to put in my menus :D I think there's an important music theory lesson here... and it's nothing to do with rhythmic or notational aspects of music... It's that sometimes theory can be extremely helpful and make you a better musician, or at least be an interesting topic of discussion... and sometimes it can be a waste of time that doesn't help you write a song any better at all. Educate yourselves in moderation! ;)Thanks a million for your input guys, this was really racking my brain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexinoodle Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Hahahah lucem was right then That is what he said you wanted when i originally posted that it was called the meter hahahahahaFlexi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 That is incorrect, it is not called the meter. I think you misread my last post ;)The time signature is a way of writing down on paper, a description of the meter - the meter is something you hear (or technically, you perceive it with your brain after you hear it) . You can't see it. Time signature is also supposedly known as the meter signature (although I've never heard anyone saying that ever)My original question was, what are the formal names for the two (or sometimes more) numbers that make up a time signature.In fact, that question is erroneous, because a time signature does not necessarily constitute two (or more) numbers in fractional form. It can, and usually does (like 4/4), but it is not something one can assume. There are other ways of notating meter (a very common example being the letter 'c' which denotes 'common time' or 4/4, various less common examples can be seen on wikipedia or google around) so one cannot assume that a time signature will be a fraction.If however the time signature which is used to denote meter, is represented as a fraction, then the formal names for the numbers which constitute the fraction are the same as for any other fraction used for any other purpose - numerator and denominator.I've been writing my sequencer from a mathematical perspective (as I do with all my music) so I've been using numerator/denominator already, but when it came to writing menus, i wanted to use the musical terminology rather than the mathematical... Turns out that they're the same after all, and I was searching for an answer I already had :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 in ableton live they are called signature numerator and signature denominator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I realise this was supposed to be a 'quick' question, but I think I object to the use of numerator and denominator in the context of a time signature.I think using these terms implies there should be a vinculum somewhere. I don't think the note line in the middle of the stave counts as a vinculum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I only said "quick" because I didn't wanna be annoying :) Feel free to discuss at will.Yaknow what? I totally agree. I guess that the middle line of the staff is indeed often utilised as vincula and that's a bit sloppy. Nonetheless it is a fraction, so numerator and denominator are correct... It's the omission of vinculum that is the erroneous component there.FWIW I've got sheet music from the 40's with fractions expressed as diagonally imposed numerator and denominator and a solidus like 3/4... but that's hand-written.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 hmmm... hand written sheet music from the forties, huh?smells like a real book to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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