Rackmount MB6852 ideas?

[m00dawg]

Recently I purchased a small desktop rack which currently houses my Virus Classic, my DJ power protector (best thing I ever bought since it has switches on the front for each AC input) and my sammichSID which really just sits on a table in the rack. My plan is to put my GM5x5x5 in a rack as well as some point but I was also thinking about my still unfinished MB6582.

I know there are a few designs for a rackmount SID of some sort but searching for them on the forums did not come up with much. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? I assume most people use a modified version of the standard control surface normally used with old C64 cases. The parts I'm not sure about is where to buy the hollow rack enclosures, among other things.

Thoughts?

[Davo]

Paia used to carry a dirt-cheap rackmount box without a faceplate that was decent enough. I have a rackmounted Paia Fatman and I didn't want the guts just hanging loose. For a rackmount panel of the MBSID, check the regular .fpd file at http://ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_fp.html and drop it into a 3u template in Front Panel Designer.

[nILS]

http://www.pollin.de has cheap rackmount cases as well. Depending on how you plan to use it, I would probably go with a 2U design and a Step B CS and control most stuff via MIDI. That really depends on how much control you want in hardware though - some more info on that might help :)

[m00dawg]

http://www.pollin.de has cheap rackmount cases as well. Depending on how you plan to use it, I would probably go with a 2U design and a Step B CS and control most stuff via MIDI. That really depends on how much control you want in hardware though - some more info on that might help :)

After using my Sammich, I actually do miss the MB-6582 interface quite a bit. Sammich is great when I already have a set of patches to use, particularly when going over to my friends house to jam since it's so small. The Java app is actually very good and the latency is decent but context switching out of my DAW sort of ruins it. I know someone was working on a VST plugin a while back so I should probably check on that though, for this, I was planning on a full CS. I have rotary knobs, sliders, and things on my keyboard but I find I don't use them near as often and I think that's because I often switch around between various synths and soft-synths and have not really found a good system to manage that. So being able to reach over and tweak the ADSR and things is really valuable.

Before I went with the standard MB-6582 (which I have decided to finish before tackling this project just so I have something ready for use), I was working on a modified control surface to include the 8th row of LEDs on the matrix so I could make it in-line with the MB-6582 control surface, so I may use that. That is sort of what I thought would be the best route to go.

Thanks everyone for all the help! I'll definitely check out those places for racks since, in the shorter term, I still need one for my GM5x5x5 (it's in a LEGO case at the moment :) )

[julianf]

i looked at mounting two x0xb0x units in a rack, side by side, but, unfortunatly, the whole lot just didnt quite fit : (

given that the mb6582 pcbs fit the same pactec case, id have thought they would be the same sort of size as the x0xb0x units, and, again, would unfortunatly not work in a dual config with the full control surface (ie just a vertical version of the desktop), however, as above, im sure you could re-work the front panel component layout more easily than itlld be possible to move all the many x0xb0x surface controls?

[m00dawg]

Side-by-side would have been wonderful but yeah I don't see that as being an easy thing to do. Did you try fitting them both in the same rackmount chassis?

As far as MB-6582, since you cannot use the pre-printed MB-6582 control surface board; and since there is not a pre-printed one for the standard C64-like control surface that I am aware of (though that would be fantastic), you have to do more work with wiring up your own boards, either on prototype boards or by making your own. Most of the designs I see use the standard prototype boards. It looks a bit ugly due to the mess of wires but otherwise works just fine and is inexpensive. I was planning on fabbing some smaller boards for the various modules (such as the LED matrix) to make it easier. Fabbing a full-sized board, outside of a bulk order, would be expensive.

I assume the same holds true for the XoXBox but I don't have one (yet) so I can't speak to that too much. I can say it will be nice to have all that room in the RU for extra stuff, like a filter section, and a power section, as well as a huge amount of cooling potential.

[julianf]

I would have to look at my notes to refresh my memory on the exact details with the x0xb0x, but, in short, they just wouldnt fit width wise without reworking the whole pcb (as the whole button interface is mounted on the same pcb).

I cant remember much more off the top of my head, but if if had have been a go'er, id have done it. Even the MOTM version was more complicated than it first seemed, due to clearences on the top and bottom rails, but that one just fits, whilst the side-by-side in the rack wouldnt.

I can cut pcbs on the cnc machines here, but, even with reworking the sequencer interface, you would still have to mess about (on the x0xb0x) doing all the other panel wiring, so it wouldnt have really worked, without doing the whole lot, which seemed more effort than it was worth!

Shame, as it would have been quite nice...

[Davo]

Julian, I found this, which claims to be your work. Would something like that work with the MB-6582?

[JRock]

That's kinda what i was imagining. If you have the height to work with, I don't see why an MB6582 CS PCB/Panel wouldn't work. you might have to modify the panel slightly, but it's a lot easier than redesigning a control surface.

Just scab out the remaining width with empty panels, or something else that's useful.

If it comes down to redesigning a CS, it's not that difficult. This whole system is designed brilliantly and elegantly. Even a slacker like me managed to get a handle on it. Lot's of work, time and fiddly shit yes, but difficult, no. :wacko:

[julianf]

Julian, I found this, which claims to be your work. Would something like that work with the MB-6582?

Yep, its one of mine. Another photo from my own website -

You can see in the comparrison above that the 5u panel just about accomidates the control surface of the x0xb0x and its rear i/o panel, so i cant see why you wouldnt be able to do similar with the mb6582 in a 5u modular.

..thinking about it now, someone in the past enquired about a panel for the mb6582 in 5u format, but the enquiry never converted to an actual order.

[m00dawg]

Wow I didn't think the size of the panel was actually 5U. That plus my GM5 would basically fill out the remaining space in my Rack :) I was thinking of having all my ports out the back though so that's one less thing assuming I can put things side-by-side. Even if, space wise, that fits, I'm not sure how to exactly mount that yet. I assume I'll need to be doing some cutting to the rack to cut some big gaping holes in order to mount the panels?

[phunk]

[m00dawg]

Oooh that's pretty! I also noticed someone has a PT-10 like case? I wonder if there exists a case that fits the same mainbaord and CS from the MB-6582. That would solve SO many of my problems. But then again, if that were the case, Wilba probably would have used that one in the first place.

I think my CS will be similar to the C64 one though I am going to move things around a bit. I want to have 20x4 LCD display as well and some things. Once I have that ready to go, I'll post it here.

[m00dawg]

Ok here's a first real stab at a rackmount MB-6582 inspired control surface. The mod-matrix hole mounts are likely to change since I will likely get that printed from BatchPCB or somewhere and want to have room for some headers. The other stuff I was going to put on protoboard since not only is it cost prohibitive to use BatchPCB for such a large board, I can't even create them since I don't have a full EagleCAD license :) I was thinking about making small boards for all the sections - I just need to spread things apart a bit more, but the only one I thought I really should have fabbed was the mod matrix.

It's only a first go at it because I have not found places to get a 3U rack in the US which means I also don't know panel dimensions and stuff. I e-mailed PAIA but haven't heard back yet. The holes on the sides of the panel are using a system holes from Front Panel. I tried looking up the vendors listed in FPD but I only found large prices and general overall pain :)

mb6582-R.fpd

[m00dawg]

Found a few places to get 3U enclosures:

http://www.par-metal.com/product-rmc-10series.php

There is an eBay store that sells them as well;

http://stores.ebay.com.sg:80/Antek-inc/_i.html?_fsub=5

Keep in mind, the default 19" rack template in Front Panel Express has the handle-mount holes in different places. I have e-mailed par-metal to get exact dimensions (I could not easily read them off the low resolution diagrams they had on their website).

They are a bit pricey but I think otherwise should do the trick.

[Altitude]

Jameco has some reasonably priced racks:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&freeText=rack%20enclosures&search_type=jamecoall

[m00dawg]

Ah yeah good point. Sent them an e-mail to see if they can provide some measurements and overall specs. Otherwise a good find!

[m00dawg]

Jameco responded and said that, though it may take a few days, they should be able to provide the dimensions. Sounds promising!

[m00dawg]

Got the specs back. Attached. They are sort of low res so I'm having a hard time reading the most important ones (at least for me) - the mounting hole locations on the front panel. Otherwise it looks like the ones form Jameco will work out great.

Going to ask them for a sharper image just to see if I can get my hands on one. I'm also now debating on 3U or 4U since I will want to put in some hot SSM action. I think a 3U would work as long as I lay things out well. *shrug*

[m00dawg]

No better scans so it looks like that's going to have to do. It's definitely different from the hole panels on the default 3U rack layout in FPD. I can't really tell from those scans where the holes are though so I guess I'll have to measure it myself when I buy one.

[m00dawg]

testI don't have the measurements yet for the 3U panel (I think I'll just have to buy it and measure I think) but I think I can eyeball it enough to keep working on the panel. I switching things around to looking more like the original C64 interface, albeit with a different arrangement.

I have added a few front vents too - I liked the idea of pulling air from the front instead of the sides so I can make sure air will go over more of the heatsinks on the SIDs (I'm planning on using a fan out the back on the same side so airflow should be largely straight through).

I am thinking of adding a front phono jack too for headphones but I haven't decided on that yet (depends on the results of post for one).

I am also thinking about using illuminated buttons for some of the single button/led items (such as the SID selection). Since I am using the same LED wiring as the MB-6582, I am a bit worried about how noticeable the different outputs of the LEDs might be though. I noticed that e-switch has quite a few options and EAGLE already has the templates for quite a few of them (that's how I found them :P).

I will likely remove the line-art too from the sections (such as LFO). I might, instead, put them in larger print on the sides since I have room for it, but I dunno.

Still a work in progress but I was excited and wanted to share :)

mb6582-R-FPD.zip

[reboot]

you can use spacers with jb-weld like wilba used with the mb6582 , and don't forget to use the 2.54 grid .

[m00dawg]

Yeah I have been going back and forth about JB-Weld. I had to re-weld a few spacers on my MB-6582 and one of my corner screws popped off while I was experimenting around with right-angled SILs. That said, I can't easily make a single-board solution so I was going to have smaller (thus lighter) boards such that JB-Weld might not be so bad. I do worry a bit about boards falling off and causing shorts and things. If I can find flat-topped screwed such that they are flush to the panel (or close anyway) I don't think I would really be bothered by them. In fact, they might go good with the blue color of the panel. As you can see I haven't made up my mind yet :)

You might have busted me on the 2.54 grid though. Are you talking about for FPE, Eagle, or both? I assume 2.54mm?

[ilmenator]

Most component grids are 2.54mm, so both board and frontpanel grid should follow that convention.

[m00dawg]

Ah .1 inch. Got it :) There are places where I was using a .25in grid so I'll have to change that. Generally the panel needs some cleanup but I need to start making prototype control surface boards before I can really hone that in I think.

As an aside, I find it weird metric is not used more in board design. This whole idea of MIL seems silly when metric would have worked a lot better (IMO - and that's coming from an American that believes the USA should switch over to a sensible measurement system :) )