Sido - simpler than Sammich

[C_04]

Hi

Ive tried to build my own SID synth and i did it successfully. That was single SID prototype and now i redesigned all pcbs - in fact some of them need some job because i had new ideas (CC and AutoWrite leds on front panel). It will be one 2 color led with priority where AW has higher than CC. 

Im sure that many of you would like to have SID synths but you are curious of your ability in soldering - thats why im thinking of selling half assembled boards, especially they partly SMT. Pcbs are double sided with many possibilities in parts there used or even building custom SIDO's. Ive designed mainboard to use with Serpac enclosures (im not sure they send me some samples that i could build exact prototype). To use this mainboard within this enclosure will be necessary small another pcb to move up rear panel connectors. There will be also another board - control board: 12 buttons and 1 encoder with button. Only mainboard is double sided, another boards single sided. 

Now im looking for some switches widely available and of course cheap. Ill inform whats done. One thing what i need is blessing from Thorsten:)

So im attaching here picture of mainboard. 

 

Regards

C_04

Edited November 19, 2013 by C_04

[NorthernLightX]

One thing you could improve on is spelling TK's last name right on the PCB :poke:

[C_04]

Thanks. Im really sorry for my mistake and already ive improved that but dont know its not too late for pcb machining. Ill check. << WAS NOT:)

Edited December 8, 2013 by C_04

[tomtiki]

This is really nice. I would attach the front panel with standoffs, add a plain back panel and put rubber feet on the bottom. No case needed at all. If you decide to make a board, I would buy one. I built a MIDIBOX SID from a core module and 2 SID modules and my control surface has never worked right. I would prefer everything on a single PCB for reliability.

 

As an alternative, if the control surface and SID/CORE/DIN were on separate boards, they could be stacked and it would be even smaller. This would also allow the control surface to be mounted separately from the other board and make a rack mount MIDIBOX SID very easy to build.

 

Has anyone ever done a minimal control surface on a single PCB with controls and display mounted directly to the board? Like a sammichSID that would attach with ribbon cables to the CORE and DIN modules?

 

--tom

[smashtv]

Nothing about this in the Sale Requests forum..... C_04 are you aware of our license requirements?

[C_04]

smashtv - yes i know license: 10 units no more than 1500 eur. Ive read Thorsten topics about that. But right now im prototyping boards so its long way and i sold nothing. Ive send him also some question about commercial license if i even finish this version of Sido. I should maybe ask in the Sale Request but its i think little too early. 

 

tomtiki - that was the idea to use the same board as desktop and rack module in even different versions. Also thats why boards are separated (control and mainboard). Mainboard is exactly fitted to Serpac enclosure. At this moment i have a lot problems... for example control board cant be easily mounted, boards need some corrections, switches are hard to get (its reason to separate control board too) etc etc. As i said previously i would like - if i will sell them - to sell partly assembled because SMT.  Im soldering 0805 parts to 1206 pads just because ive bought better quality parts: Murata, Panasonic etc. Electrolytics are smaller too but it doesnt matter. 

Regards

C_04

Edited December 8, 2013 by C_04

[tomtiki]

I can solder SMT. If you need a tester or feedback, let me know :-)

 

--tom

[Acul]

hello. I am also very interested in this project. I can also smt solder itself and would love to test your layout. of course I pay for the PCB itself also :)

[C_04]

Hi 
Im attaching another pics from work progress. This picture with pcb in bottom of enclosure looks little dusty but i did polished corners to fit it easily. I forgot to point that i want milling;) Also as you can see SIDO v2 soldermask is moved down. These and a lot different problems we found when sending gerbers from EAGLE. It has some problems with fonts. Eagle change them when exporting to another one type of font and then looks really ugly. This board can operate with 3 types of memory: TSSOP8 and SSO8/SOIC8 both EIAJ and JEDEC. 

Sorry guys I have ordered only this one pcb for testing because i wasnt sure that everything is ok. So i was right - nothing is ok hehehehe.

I would prefer if it will be in sale to sell assembled because i can test then whole device + upload software. Especially it must be dedicated software - if comparing to sammichSID control board has swapped connections to registers. Im not saying that bare boards will impossible to order - just i would be sure that future user has working synthesizer - not tons of problems. 

This one pcb cost me a lot because what they call it "i started manufacturing process".  Fortunately they said that they will fix these all mistakes free of charge.

 

Ahhh i forgot to say that as you can see there not much to soldering:)

Cheers

C_04

 

P. S. Ive attached some documents for enclosures. 

P. S. 2 Im plannig to use this red negative LCD but also im thinking about orange. Depends which will fit better to other part of design. I have so many brown switches and here orange display could be better choice... but this red looks so sexy:)

P. S. 3 I did some fast calculations and at 10 boards each of them may cost about 25 EUR but if 100 pcbs ordered each of them could be about 12 EUR. Its just my calculation not pcb manufacturer and im not sure it will exatly like that. Note that there will be needed another two much cheaper boards (control + connectors). 

Serpac 17S.pdf

Edited December 8, 2013 by C_04

[ilmenator]

Especially it must be dedicated software - if comparing to sammichSID control board has swapped connections to registers.

 

To be honest, I don't think it is a smart choice to do this. It might make routing of the board a bit easier, but it will be a nightmare to keep up with MIOS updates. I don't see how are you going to support this if you don't think that users can upload software themselves?

 

One of the mounting screws is conflicting with the MIDI socket - how will that be solved? Hopefully not by just leaving out the screw?

[C_04]

ilmenator - MIOS is exactly the same only setup firmware is little different and only with exactly one control board yet. You may if you wish to use sammichSID control board and then you have to upload setup firmware for sammichSID. I think it explains to you what i thought saying "software". 

 

That screw and few other places as i said before can be used in other versions of SIDO. If you assembling this SIDO here, you will need distance bolts (one of attachements). Additional board must be about 20mm higher than mainboard.  For example if you wanna build SIDO RACK - then you dont need this special additional board (it lift up/move up connectors) - you just mount all this pcb to back panel of rack + if possible to floor/bottom plate of rack enclosure. Here also another control board will be necessary and of course i think setup firmware.  Sido has only one control encoder but in RACK you can use as many as you have place there. 

Im adding attachments here to explain better. Orange circles shows where and when you have to use screws. :smile:

Cheers

Edited December 8, 2013 by C_04

[ilmenator]

What I am still wondering: Why would one need this if one can have a Sammich? In other words: apart from using a different PCB and case, what is the difference?

[C_04]

Hi

You cant have sammich:)

Difference is: partly SMT, much simpler, 8 banks memory, dont have these led matrix or even output registers (595 on control brd), boards are designed by me and idea here was to be used in different setups as i said: desktop, rack, extended desktop etc. To me sounds the same so no more differences. Should be cheaper if that matter.

Regards

C_04

Edited December 8, 2013 by C_04

[nILS]

You can haz sammich.

[C_04]

Hi nILS

Do you planing to release next batch?

Regards

[nILS]

We're taking a little break at the moment, but once the list is long enough, there'll most likely be another run, yes.  (And by "we", I mean Wilba)  :flowers:

[monads]

We're taking a little break at the moment, but once the list is long enough, there'll most likely be another run, yes.  (And by "we", I mean Wilba)  :flowers:

 

Every time I find a request for "Want To Buy" I send/post the info to get on the list.  But I'm not sure anyone follows up as there's no indication of another run.  It'd be nice if the list stats were posted i.e. 21 of 150 on list for next sammichSID kit/batch of releases.

 

Yes, I'm on the list  :smile:

[C_04]

Hi 

Yesterday i already soldered missing few last parts. After fast/short tests i can say that everything works fine beside LCD backlight - i mean its still the same full bright, no matter that pot is turned left of right. Its not my mistake because ive compared schematics and they the same with pcb. Probably transistor has too big hfe. I found solution for such cases but unfortunately its too late because pcb is produced yet. I will make some cosmetic changes and thats it. Fortunately dimming is almost never used - i mean is set once, anyway i will check another resistors between transistor and pot (different values).  In fact ive been mostly afraid about optocoupler which i bought somewhere from HK or China but they work excellent.

Maybe i could provide pcbs for these two persons but i would like to know that you need complete pcbs set with control board and this small for connectors?

As attachment you may find my solution for dimming. Works every time no matter hfe you have, may be problematic that regulation is only 1/4 of pot scale but at least still is.  

Edited December 15, 2013 by C_04

[ilmenator]

In fact ive been mostly afraid about optocoupler which i bought somewhere from HK or China but they work excellent.

 

Using obscure parts or parts that originate from an obscure source is something I would strongly advise against. It might be okay for a build that you do for yourself, but this is definitely not something you want to be part of a kit that you sell to some other, maybe inexperienced, builders.

 

I am pretty sure you don't want to test each and every component that you are planning to send out, so a word of warning is due here, I think.

[C_04]

Even Farnell may be obscure if you buying first time there;) So... 

Beside that almost every parts are from China or any part of Asia. I bought many times and many things from China and never had any problems. I could say that these problematic parts are made in EU but also Asia. Im not pretty sure. I remember devices which had polished ICs (devices were made in EU) and maybe that was starting point for idea to second life for these broken/cheap. 

Looks you dont have to warn me:) But you are right - unknown parts sources can be even harmful hehe. Ive seen burning chips and that was open fire not just psssst;)

Cheers

Edited December 15, 2013 by C_04

[ilmenator]

All this is okay if you are buying for yourself - but you want to sell this to others, which I advise against.

[nILS]

Obscure parts from obscure sources and "I won't fix this because it probably doesn't matter" are really not a good starting point for pretty much anything. I'd also strongly advise sticking to well-known/common parts and dealers as well as fixing every single issue before even considering selling any part of it to anyone or even making the schematic/layout public.

[C_04]

Hello

Mr ilmentor and Mr nILS - this is somekind misunderstanding - you both still talking about obscure parts, obscure sources etc. And im assuring you that these optocouplers were purchased for testing only purposes and that really doesnt matter to fix here something beside that nothing is broken. These were 6n138 but also i have 6n137 (previous sido use this one) also many more not significant here optocouplers because for example CNY17 will be useless. I bought these 6n138 only 5 pcs and they cost me not much. If units will be in production but this depends from Thorsten all parts will be documented by invoices or vouchers. So you both really dont have to be scary about my help or post sale service. As i told to Thorsten i will provide warranty and i think this is much important than testing different parts from different sources especially they are for my private use and in prototyping phase. I said in - i think - first post here that im collecting good quality parts. Im telling once again: THESE 6n138 ARE NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE.  I have many ideas for different devices and i need these 6n138 - fortunately they were cheap and useful. Even so you dont asking about type of tin for soldering, etc but i know EU engineering rules (CE and a few EN, Rohs). I had few meetings about that in Leeds UK, also here in Poland/Katowice/Wroclaw/Poznan/Warszawa in certification units. Thats for future questions.  Please understand me that isnt my idea to make mess for myself.

Regards

 

P. S. Attachments shows that im professional. These enclosures are one of my previous works. I designed them all (enclosures, panels). They were laser cut. Front panels are brushed aluminum. Sido could be also made that way but only if will be produced.  Ive scaled down one of my documents for machining - its only for view here. I did not corrected dimensions because of machines tolerances.

Edited December 16, 2013 by C_04

[Johey]

I very much like the effort you put into this, C_04! This is needed, indeed. Overflow of MBSID kits is not the kind of problem we suffer.

 

Others, please... This guy is all about to comply to the license as far my eyes reach. Which are your concerns? There are tons of people out there with limited building skills badly wanting an MBSID. sammichSID is perfect by all means, but the production can by far not meet the needs. Besides, we really need an option in Europe without having to pay additional ~40% of the price in shipping+customs.

 

Sign me up for a kit please, if/when it eventually becomes available! I would like to have a 6581 based unit to sing the second voice. :)

[C_04]

Hi

Thank you very much for yours really kind words. Anyway now i have to find few solutions for: switches, control board mounting to enclosure and few more. In fact i had this all designed but as you all know better is always better:) 

Sido can be easily changed from 8580 to 6581 - only you have to remove 7909 and solder there 7912 plus these small caps around SIDs which in option 8580 are 22nF - they have to be 470pF when 6581 (if i remember correctly). Also im not so good in digging into software - i would like to improve some things and i dont know where to start. There are so many files. For example old version of MBSID had possibility to connect directly leds which shows midi activity (in and out). I dont see this ability in newer designs. For me its important thing because sometimes im not sure SIDO is sending CC's. Also one of controllers has number 0 which is not recognizable for Cubase (sometimes I use my Sido as small midi controller). Of course there will be led indicating CC is on and Auto Write (or somehow) and these already works but better could be to see some movement here. Probably i will not apply this feature just because every version of firmware should be modified - now is almost the same sammichSID. Of course there different connections. My SIDO has EXEC or MENU button when you push encoder, sammichSID has separate button.  But im thinking how i could improve that. Maybe shift should be there. Then i could use one hand to operate some functions but i can still operate one hand another functions hehehe. Thats the question - which of them could be more handy. 

All of you asking about kits - what about your SMT soldering ability? Two of colleagues here said that they can solder SMT. As i told SIDO may be partly assembled kit or full assembled. Only what you have is to put there your SIDs.

Im thinking how many PCBs i should order. Maybe 3 as i told before will be best choice. Price will be probably not less than 30 EUR only for this mainboard. But these are very first PCBs. 

Cheers

Edited December 17, 2013 by C_04