loderbast

wilba panel button issue

22 posts in this topic

first of all: thanks to TK for all your great work!!

 

so i finally got a seq v4 and soldered everything yesterday.

 

i got a MBHP_CORE_STM32F4, Wilba SEQ CS board and MBHP_MIDI_IO.

i used the wilba MBSEQ_HW.V4 file without any changes and the newest firmware version (088)

 

no magic smoke after the first power up, but not all the buttons are working. only step  6,7, 10 ,11 of the step buttons are working and some of the other buttons also do nothing. (i didnt check which ones exactly, because i am unfamiliar with the user interface and never sure if every button should do something in the menu page i am in)

 

the encoders all work fine.

 

i didn't solder the leds yet, because the panel is not ready and it will be easier to get them in the right position if i do them later.

 

i did check the solder joints visually and the orientation of the ics on the CS Pcb -no obvious problems there.

my roommate also build a unit for himself and we sourced all the parts together. his unit has the exact same problem.

thats why i think it is not a simple solder error like a short or wrong orientation of some part. (because that would be unlikely to happen twice.)

 

please help me with troubleshooting. i don't really know where to start looking.

 

i am a midibox noob by the way. (only did a seqv4lite in the past) so it is probably a noob mistake...

 

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This is really strange! Especially because the working buttons are scanned over different matrix lines there is no simple explanation.

 

In order to get a better picture, it would be interesting which buttons (and encoders) are working exactly.

For this purpose I added a new testmode into the firmware:

-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_089_pre1.zip

 

After the upload, enter "set din_testmode on" into MIOS terminal, and then push all buttons and turn all encoders.

Let me know, which buttons are working exactly (I need the Mx and pin number), and if the encoders are working.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hi Thorsten. didn't expect a reply that fast :)

 

here is the output from MIOS Studio:

 

[19138.007] set din_testmode on
[19138.008] DIN testmode turned on
[19142.065] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D6 pressed
[19142.193] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D6 depressed
[19162.485] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D7 pressed
[19162.541] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D7 depressed
[19163.796] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M6 D6 pressed
[19163.836] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M6 D6 depressed
[19164.572] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M6 D7 pressed
[19164.620] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M6 D7 depressed
[19165.404] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M7 D6 pressed
[19165.484] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M7 D6 depressed
[19166.116] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M7 D7 pressed
[19166.204] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M7 D7 depressed
[19166.874] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M5 D6 pressed
[19166.969] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M5 D6 depressed
[19168.995] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M5 D7 pressed
[19169.067] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M5 D7 depressed
[19186.887] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M2 D6 pressed
[19186.966] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M2 D6 depressed
[19187.825] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D6 pressed
[19187.889] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D6 depressed
[19189.550] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M2 D7 pressed
[19189.614] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M2 D7 depressed
[19190.608] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D7 pressed
[19190.688] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D7 depressed
[19191.484] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M1 D6 pressed
[19191.500] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M1 D6 depressed
[19192.054] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D6 pressed
[19192.126] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D6 depressed
[19205.850] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M7 D1 pressed
[19205.946] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M7 D1 depressed
[19206.875] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D0 pressed
[19206.986] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D0 depressed
[19210.526] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D1 pressed
[19210.638] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D1 depressed
[19211.109] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D0 pressed
[19211.229] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D0 depressed
[19220.442] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D2 pressed
[19220.506] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D2 depressed
[19223.329] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D3 pressed
[19223.465] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D3 depressed
[19226.334] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D2 pressed
[19226.422] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D2 depressed
[19229.804] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D3 pressed
[19229.916] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D3 depressed
[19242.198] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D4 pressed
[19242.335] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D4 depressed
[19244.151] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D5 pressed
[19244.271] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M8 D5 depressed
[19248.081] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D4 pressed
[19248.184] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M4 D4 depressed
[19251.937] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D5 pressed
[19252.105] [DIN_TESTMODE] BLM8x8 Pin M3 D5 depressed

 

the encoders are working fine. (tested them all in both directions)

 

here is a little image where i marked the working buttons:

buttonissue.jpg

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... it is exactly the same with my roommates frontpanel pcb.

 

we are using Bourns PEC16-4215F-N0024 encoders from mouser (if that has to do with anything)

Edited by loderbast

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Could you please do an electrical continuity check?

E.g. with an ohmmeter or a "beeper".

 

See also following schematic where I marked the interesting measurement points for the GP1 button:

wilba_pcb_check_matrix.png

 

direct download:

http://www.ucapps.de/tmp/wilba_pcb_check_matrix.png

 

All 5 "D0" points should be connected, as well as the 4 marked "M5" points.

 

In addition it would be interesting if the "din_testmode" shows a message if you connect D0 of U2 (this is a 74HC165) with M5 of U7 (this is a 74HC595) with a short cable.

This should trigger the "Pin M5 D0" message.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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none of the D0 pins are connected except the most right two ones in your image.

the m5 ones are fine.

 

shorting the two pins of U2 and U7 with a cable results in MIOS Studio recieving a M5 D0 "pressed" when connected,

many alternating M4 D0 "pressed / depressed" messages while connected and M5 D0 "depressed" when i diesconnect the cable.

 

 

maybe this has to do with us not using the tl1100 footprint for the buttons but the inner holes?

this are the pins we are using:

buttonpins.jpg

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I've an assumption: there isn't a problem with the smaller footprint, but the circuit behaves like if the upper two pins of the button are not connected internally. If you follow the D0 track in the schematic, you will see what I mean: it goes from U2 to GP7, GP5, GP3 and GP1 via the buttons.

 

The datasheet says that the internal connection exists: https://www.e-switch.com/system/asset/product_line/data_sheet/143/TL1100.pdf

(pin 3/4 and 1/2 are connected together), but somehow this isn't the case at your side...?

 

You could check if this assumption is true by soldering a short wire at the upper two button pins of all GP buttons (start with GP7, and check if GP5 is working thereafter)

 

No wire is required for the two lower pins.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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got it:

 

we are not using tl1100 but "Eingabetaster ITT D6R" from pollin.de

and have all of them soldered wrong (90° rotated) :pinch:

i knew it had to be some stupidity like that on our side...  

i even checked their pinout and somehow assumed i had it the right way before soldering.

 

now i feel a bit like having wasted your time Tk. sorry.

at least now this thread exists to remind everybody who wants to use non standard buttons to think before they solder them in..

 

thanks a lot Tk!!

 

now its desoldering time..

 

cheers loderbast

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Alright - no problem, this was a nice challenge (something like a text adventure ;-)

 

Desoldering will be extremely time consuming, and there is a higher danger that tracks will be damaged and the circuit won't work anymore without fixes.

 

It's probably easier if you would cut some tracks with a sharp knife, and re-connect them with short wires.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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done :rolleyes:

 

just finished redoing all the switches.

i took the desoldering route.

took ages and was a PITA but fortunately no pads were lifted and no traces damaged. even all the buttons survieved.

 

and now they are all working now !!

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It's working.

 

Thanks for your support (on an sunday) and for designing this wonderful platform.

 

Desoldering, cleaning and resoldering 50something buttons wasn't fun, but it was well worth it.

I would do it again just to get this beauty running.

 

So thanks again,

 

cheers

above-mentioned-roommate

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Just a note as i recalled you said the led's have yet to be installed... Remember led 27 or somewhere around there the polarity is reversed as to the rest of the led's... Your not careful you can miss it...

Edited by cosmosuave

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thanks cosmosuave for the reminder!

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I'm glad that we solved this! :)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Do the ITT D6R fit out of the box?? I first wanted to buy them too cause I like round simple buttons, but was unshure, cause the inner holes of the wilba panel are not 5 by 5.

Edited by Ungleichklang

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@ungleichklang: the pins need a little bending before they can be inserted, they won't sit perfectly flush with the board and you need to take care to align them right before soldering. (i think i soldered one leg first then checked if they sit right and reheated if nececcary)

other than that i am very happy with them.

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Cool, so my reichelt Checkout can be done as soon as I have the money. Thanks loderbast ..

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sorry guys for resurrecting this dead thread, but  don't wanted to make a new one for this.
I was about to build a Seq v4 with wilba frontpanel when I found really fancy buttons from an old video titler. Strange footprint but I don't mind etching an adapter pcb.
The doubt is: it's possible to use 2 pin SPST switches also in place of the 1-16 step buttons? 

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30 minutes ago, dadacore said:

The doubt is: it's possible to use 2 pin SPST switches also in place of the 1-16 step buttons? 

As your SPST switch probably stays in place after the switch operation (like off -> on), this is not practical, as MBSEQ functions are triggered by a short "off->on->off" pulse, when you press (and release) the tactical switch.

Wilba's frontpanel is able to accept multiple switch footprint sizes, though, no explicit need to use the original recommended ones.

Many greets,

Peter

 

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9 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

As your SPST switch probably stays in place after the switch operation (like off -> on), this is not practical, as MBSEQ functions are triggered by a short "off->on->off" pulse, when you press (and release) the tactical switch.

 

nope, are non latching, Normally open momentary tactile switches, kind of the ones of a '80s keyboard such as an AtariST or similar.
What puzzles me is: if switches are supposed to be already connected two pins by two pins, this could be the same as using a 2 pin switch and jumpering the other two on the board? But my head hurts when I look at the schem below :confused:.

sreenshot.png

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2 minutes ago, dadacore said:

nope, are non latching, Normally open momentary tactile switches, kind of the ones of a '80s keyboard such as an AtariST or similar.
What puzzles me is: if switches are supposed to be already connected two pins by two pins, this could be the same as using a 2 pin switch and jumpering the other two on the board? But my head hurts when I look at the schem below :confused:.

sreenshot.png

 

Is that the schematic for the SEQ or something else? The SEQ is connected in a matrix. From the layout data it appears Wilba used the common halves of the switches to act as PCB jumpers. 

Edited by latigid on

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Latigid on is right, some connections were optimized for the matrix routing, but don't worry too much :-)

If your switches are "temporary on", you can use them, if they fit.

There are 2 input pins and 2 output pins for every switch on the PCB.

The input pins and output pins are usually connected internally within the standard switches, but you could do that with a piece of wire on the PCB, too (just as you said - jumper on the PCB, but don't connect the two open pins. Connect them to your your two switch pins, respectively)!

Many greets,

Peter

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