I *WAS* the Village Idiot : DIN probs solved

[dengel]

It seems that the only way I can get things to work is to post here so I can be humiliated when I figure out that my woes are due to a wire break, so here goes again:

I have two beautifully soldered dins that I am hooking to the core. I have jumpered all my AINs to ground at the core using Smash's pc jumper technique, and have the DIn hooked up as follows:

Core J9 RC > Din J1 RC

Core J9 SC > Din J1 Sc

Core J9 Si > Nothing

Core J9 VD > Din J1 Vd

Core J9 Vs > Din J1 Vs

Button is hooked to Din J4 d5, and J4 Vs pins

Here's what I have tested:

Wire continuity (same wires used in successful AIN test)

Button resistance (infinite when open, 1.2 closed) This same button has worked as a USB Keyboard button before)

Button voltage (4.91-7)

Din IC voltage (4.97)

Also, Din J1 RC and SC, if I use the multimeter on those pins, I get 4.96 Volts.

Once again, I get a properly behaving Core, but no midi signal when the button is pressed.

Thoughts? :-[

[illogik]

maybe i'm one too, but;

Core J9 Si > Nothing

  ???

[dengel]

Well, On the DIN, there is nothing silkscreened to indicate if this pin should be between the SC and Vd pins on Din J1, but In my defense I have tried it both ways , both with Si hooked to this pin and not :(.

Also, if you look on the underside of the board, The center pins of Din J1 don't have any traces to them.

[doc]

Hi,

I hope I get you right: You have nothing connected to Si of J9 (CORE) ?

I'm sure that you have to connect Si from J9 of the CORE to Si J1 of your first DIN.

In schematic words: Pin RD1 of the PIC  (Si) must go to the first DIN IC 74HC165 PIN 9.

If you don't connect the first HC165 right, the others won't work also.

Take a close look on the schematics of DIN and Core.

greets

Doc

[dengel]

Well, sort of - whether I hook anything up to the center post of J1 (after SC and Before Vd on J1) I get nothing. It's odd because J1 has no silkscreening for Si except on J2. I even tried hooking up to J2, still no luck.

I looked at the scematic and saw that Si needs to be hooked up - but like I said, I hook it up ( I think) and reboot the core and I still get no midi event when I press the button.

[smashtv]

It seems that the only way I can get things to work is to post here so I can be humiliated when I figure out that my woes are due to a wire break, so here goes again:

Bahh you are confusing humiliation with learning something....  ;D  None of the heavies here expect you to come to the table with all the knowledge you need, but we do like to see people ready to learn.....any humiliation is only in your viewpoint.... ;)

Everyone starts somewhere, and anyone who has not spent hours chasing a failure due to wiring is either lying or still a newb.  ;D

Well, On the DIN, there is nothing silkscreened to indicate if this pin should be between the SC and Vd pins on Din J1, but In my defense I have tried it both ways , both with Si hooked to this pin and not :(.

In my defense there would be a SI designation there, but there is no room on the board for it!  Always follow the schematics, all other info including the board layouts come from those files.

Also, if you look on the underside of the board, The center pins of Din J1 don't have any traces to them.

That trace is on the topside.

Doc has it right, SI must be connected.

Jinx!  (you posted while I was writing!)

I looked at the scematic and saw that Si needs to be hooked up - but like I said, I hook it up ( I think) and reboot the core and I still get no midi event when I press the button.

Are you sure you are not wired up to a menu button that does not send a MIDI message when you press it?

Best

Smash

[dengel]

I am not totally sure of that, but wouldn't that show something on the LCD in that case? I've Tried a few different pins. Is it ok to wire up the button to any random pin? Also, is the Vs pin on each set of din inputs a usable ground for the button?

[doc]

Is it ok to wire up the button to any random pin?

It depends a little bit on the application you've loaded.

I didn't read anything about your MIOS Application.

You've already loaded MIOS and a Application on the CORE ? Which One?

If you load the ain64_din128_dout128_v1_3 you have all DINs connected. In that case, when you press a button you'll see the DIN#Pin on the display, also the status (1 pressed, 0 released).

Also, is the Vs pin on each set of din inputs a usable ground for the button?

[dengel]

Sorry - at the moment, It is a MB64, although I will be changing that to a 64E (I need some encoders in addition to pots). I have got the AINs and LCD working, so I can see things happen as expected on the LCD.

[eufex]

If you've now got the DIN connected correctly to the core I would suggest checking continuity between the 6 DIN Pins and the core. If they are OK, check that the DIN PIN is dropping to 0 volts when you close the button - it's an active low. Make sure that you check the voltage both between the + rail of your button board and the ground on the power supply and between the + rail of your button board and the DIN ground when the button is closed - make sure that both grounds are at the same reference.

If you don't find anything at fault then, take a look at the DIN circuit diagram and measure voltages on the shift register pins - you may have a dodgy joint somewhere.

[dengel]

I am going nuts with these DINs. I have checked voltage just about everywhere, and get the expected 5 volts everywhere I check. Also, by accident when I was taking off the wires to the din, I crossed one of the SC/RC/SI wires, and it went into Bank Select mode (which I couldn't get out of, so I had to reload MIOS and then reload MB64 to get out of the "all boxes, all o's" screen that I got put into after reboot.

I also tried reversing the IC's, since I figured that might be wrong. but much as on the AIN test, that just makes things not power up.

Arrrghhh!

I even tried using just two wires, in case the button was broken, to no avail.

[doc]

Arrrghhh!

... Yeah. Sometimes its hard ... ;)

Some reminders before you*re going nuts :

Also, by accident when I was taking off the wires to the din, I crossed one of the SC/RC/SI wires, and it went into Bank Select mode

You should always disconnect the hardware from power before changing anything! Hope this reminds you.

I also tried reversing the IC's, since I figured that might be wrong

This is a bad test, because you might blow the ICs by reversing them.

I even tried using just two wires, in case the button was broken, to no avail.

You can easily check the buttun with a OHM-meter (Don't know the right word in english. The meter you can measure  resistance). It is also possible (as you might already know) to check the Dins with a short cable connected to ground. Just tip on the DIN Pin you want to test.

Do you always test at the same In or dou you check all the Ins of the DIN?

As said before: You only get a midi signal by testing none of the menu navigation Pins.

Thats why I always try the ain64_din128_dout128_v1_3 application first. There's no menu and every DIN pin gives feedback to the lcd.

So, after reading all your tests I only can tell you (what all others here might also tell...):

Double check soldering & wireing. measure & pray that your ICs are still alive after reversing them.

greets

Doc

[dengel]

Pretty sure the IC's weren't damaged by that, but I can't factor out the possibility they were bad from the get go, since they've NEVER sent any button presses.. I've actually tested EVERY SINGLE din one by one :( hoping to get at least 1 hit. But in any case, I'm running (now) customized MB64E with menu buttons disabled from main.asm (I don't need them, but I DO need the Dins). Plus, even if I hit a menu button I'd be happy. I'd at least see something happen on the LCD.

I checked the wiring and my button with a multimeter and aligator clips to ensure it was OK. They all seem fine (in fact, the same wires performed fine on my AIN testing). I've checked the soldering many times, and it looks picture-perfect. I also went from pin to pin on the IC's and got solid 5V all the way down the line. All the way to the pins - even to the terminals on the one test button - I get 5 volts.

I'll try the core ground Idea to see if I can get anything.

EDIT: Tried J9Vs to all Din Pins - nothing :(

EDIT AGAIN:

I think one of my two DINS is bad. I finally got a signal from one DIN hooked up alone. Once I hook up the other DIN (alone or in series) BOTH dins stop sending data. This has always been the case - that is, when both DINS were hooked up, they NEVER worked. Possibly the IC's are malfunctioning in DIN # 2, because the soldering looks greta, even under magnification.

Perhaps I can get some new IC's from a local shop tomorrow and test that. Otherwise - it's another order to Smash!

[doc]

Hi,

I think one of my two DINS is bad. I finally got a signal from one DIN hooked up alone. Once I hook up the other DIN (alone or in series) BOTH dins stop sending data. This has always been the case - that is, when both DINS were hooked up, they NEVER worked. Possibly the IC's are malfunctioning in DIN # 2, because the soldering looks greta, even under magnification.

If one DIN is working alone and if nothing works after connecting a second one ... thats the first step ...

You're on the right way. Just change the ICs from the one DIN to the other and check again. If it is the same board making trouble you surely have somewhere a short between the SC and the RC line.

If the "damaged" board is working after the IC change then you have a faulty IC.

Hope you'll get it run soon.

greets

Doc

[dengel]

Well, the IC's from the bad board work OK in the "good" board, so it isn't the IC. It might be possible that there's a short BELOW the headers, where they are covered by the plastic so I can't see them.

I'll check that tonight. Thanks for the idea, Doc.

All DINs now working - there was a short under the plastic of a pinheader, as suspected when the IC's decide to work ;)

I must've used just a little too much on that contact, becase the short was very small - but then again, so is an electron!

So, with that, and thanks to the EXCELLENT test tip of trying the 64/128 App, I now have one working core, a working LCD, and 2 dins and 2 ains.

To top it all off, my buddy called me about CNC'ing the panel! With my Lightsout button in, I now can begin assembly of the beast.

I actually am going to build a VERY minimal rig for a house party this weekend. It'll be ugly, but It'll get the job done - 3 eqs, 1 fx send, one vol button, and 6 buttons per channel is the plan, with just the plain-jane 64/128 app to run it all. I'll  control the navigation with the KB.

[doc]

great!

Have a lot of fun with it!  8)

greets

Doc

[DavidBanner]

just curious, why are you using ain64_din128_dout128_v1_3 and not ain64_din128_dout128_v2_0.zip?

[dengel]

Hmmmm - no reason except that I didn't see the other one. 1.3 worked well enough for testing, though. But I'll look for and upload the later version.

I eyeball drilled the front panel and wired the pots for the 2-channel controller that I need for the party this weekend. Trying to find a box for it to live in for the night. This is a personal house party, so it doesn't have to look professional. And boy, it sure doesn't!

I am considering calling it either the FuglyBox or Mad Box:Beyond Thunderdome  ;D

[DavidBanner]

how about calling it Danni?

after Danni Minogue, the ugly(er) sister of a world class beauty (note: deliberate lack of comment on musical talents), but you still would....

[stryd_one]

hahah there's more plastic on those girls than your average C64 case  :o

LOL FuglyBox  ;D

[DavidBanner]

that's the thing about plastic - it's nice to play with for a bit, but you wouldn't want to live with it ;)