Fatar TP/40L Midification

[Thoskan]

Hi everybody, my name is Florian (aka Thoskan) and I live near Toulouse in France.

First of all, Thanks to all of you for sharing all this documentation about the project MIDIBOX KB.

Initially I wanted to buy the controller LMK2+ alone without the keyboard, but Doepfer wanted to sell me 500 euros. So I refuse and opt for the MIDIBOX project, more interesting, configurable and also much cheaper.

My project is to midify a keyboard Fatar TP/40L, and I chose to use MIDIBOX KB, with the CORE_STM32F4 and DIO_MATRIX.
I bought the 2 PCBs from https://modularaddict.com and I also printed the FantomXR PCB (Fatar keybed adapter http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=fantomxr) at OSHpark. Thank you FantomXR for this missing piece to my project.

For the moment, i just want to connect the keyboard (2 micromatch of 20 pins ), a sustain pedal and 2 yamaha FC7 pedals to control volume and fx.

I bought all the components from https://www.reichelt.de/ from the orderlist. Moreover, the STM32F407G-DISC1 is available here: https://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=219363;SEARCH=STM32F407G-DISC1. It is a little more expensive than at Mouser but the shipping costs are lower (20 euros at mouser vs 5 euros at reichelt).

I look forward to receive all these components and I hope that i will solder very soon.
I will share every step of the construction, that's why I created this topic.

I hope I will not have too many questions. 

Thank you Thorsten for this great project and for your generosity.

 

[Zam]

Bienvenue ici !

Looking forward.

Best

Zam

[Antichambre]

Bienvenue à toi, le toulousain, t'as fait le bon choix ;)

I will follow your project too!

7 hours ago, Thoskan said:

It is a little more expensive than at Mouser but the shipping costs are lower (20 euros at mouser vs 5 euros at reichelt).

For you to know that if your order amount is more than 70€, shipping is free at Mouser, then it's some time better to wait and group your order.

Best regards
Bruno de Dax ;)

[Thoskan]

Hi everybody ! Bonjour à tous ^^

 

I received my electronic cards, and I sold everything. Everything worked perfectly right the first time, except that I had just reversed the cables that connected the TP40.

At first I installed the firmware MIDIBOX KB, but I really struggled to get something reliable in terms of velocity. While looking on the forum, I saw that other people used the MIDIBOX NG in order to be able to use velocity curves. (http://midibox.org/forums/topic/20344-speed-up-scanrate-of-ng-by-kicking-out-other-scanroutines/)

I will do the same, and try to find the right settings for me.

I still have to know how to connect my 2 sustain pedals and my 2 expression pedals. In fact I use mainstage with a left hand part (rhodes bass) and a right hand part for other sounds, and I would like to have two separate sustain pedals. I still have to find out how to do that. If you have ideas I'm interested.
 
Here are some pictures.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Thoskan
upload a video

[gerald.wert]

if your sustain pedals are just on and off you just need a din. You can just build with 1 74hc165 and have 8 inputs.

http://ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_dinx1.pdf

 

[Markus Heidt]

@Thoskan

Hello Florian,

I have a Studiologic SL880 (Fatar action) and want to replace the electronic.

Now I evaluate my two options. Making it a Doepfer PK88 (only Midi channel 1, but support of all three pedals) for 250EUR.

Or building a MidiBox. Have you finished your project already and do you have at least a volume and sustain pedal working?

Do you know the total costs?

 

thx,

Markus

[Thoskan]

Hi markus, 

For this project, i used Midibox NG cause i can use the interpolation to compute the velocity. It works very well with my TP40/L.

if you choose MidiBox Project, You will pass many hours to study topics and documentations, but you will be very proud of you. I can affirm you that my keyboard works well and i can connect my sustain pedal. I study now the connection for expression pedal. 

If you have time, i will write a tutorial for my project very soon

best regard

[FantomXR]

On 10.5.2018 at 11:53 AM, Markus Heidt said:

@Thoskan

Hello Florian,

I have a Studiologic SL880 (Fatar action) and want to replace the electronic.

Now I evaluate my two options. Making it a Doepfer PK88 (only Midi channel 1, but support of all three pedals) for 250EUR.

Or building a MidiBox. Have you finished your project already and do you have at least a volume and sustain pedal working?

Do you know the total costs?

 

thx,

Markus

Where are you located?

I have made a core, that has everything on board. Just connect the keybed and that’s it. I think I still have some units left. 

Let me know!

[Thoskan]

Hi eveyrbody, just for information, i published an github (https://github.com/OrangePeelFX/DIY-Keyboard-Fatar-TP40) with my notes on this project.

My fatar slept for a year, but I found the energy to finish this project.

Thx to FantomXR and Thorsten for your help and your sharing !!

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Thoskan

[FantomXR]

Great! Looks good! :-)

Strange keybed... from C to B?

Edited February 1, 2019 by FantomXR

[Thoskan]

Yes it's an unconventional keyboard 

I adapted the fatar to my needs and especially the size of the flight case !!

It also makes me piano parts (Keys, springs, ...) , and the keyboard goes into the trunk of my car ;) Also it's much ligther (27 Kg now Vs 37kg with the PC3X and case). My Back is so happy !! 

FantomXR, Do you have pictures of your old MIDIBOX project ?

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Thoskan

[pifano]

On 15.5.2018 at 1:52 AM, FantomXR said:

Where are you located?

I have made a core, that has everything on board. Just connect the keybed and that’s it. I think I still have some units left. 

Let me know!

if you still have 2 of these i am in for it.

have 2 sl880 converted with wood casing and now the motherboards act very strange

[FantomXR]

Yes. I still have some boards. Not soldered yet but I could do it. Pls drop me a message if interested. 

[pifano]

Great i am in for it. I love those Keybeds.  I can solder too but you seem to be the more experienced guy. i need at least 2.  both Motherboard died recently i have one working as lower manual to a Hammond xk3 organ. Lets do it like this.  solder one for me the other one i solder myself i like to learn something. maybe i am going to build a pedalboard for my organ. do i have to change something on the ribbon cables to be able to attach the keybed? and what is the price you are asking?

[chaimstest]

hi i got a fatar keybed 76 note i just wont to make it into a small desktop midi controller what do i need for that i got a 20 pin and a 16 pin and a 4pin for probably the aftertouch from  ketron sd 1  thanks 

Edited September 16, 2019 by chaimstest

[Skunk]

Hi Florian,,

I have now nearly the same project in front of me: Generating -- out of a naked TP40WOOD from Fatar that I got some years ago -- a MIDI Keyboard like the Doepfer LMK4+. Doepfer charges 1500€ for this, and the solution with MIDIbox is much, much cheaper, thanks to Thorsten! I'll use the STM32F4 on a MIDIbox NG baseboard plus DIO_Matrix plus MIDI_IO plus AINSER8 (for the wheels and Pots) plus a 2x40 LCD blue plus a MBHP_DIN for the 24 Keys. So the same functions as the LMK4+ and a very similar control panel. But much cheaper.

Will see how it works... Next phase is the Mechanics for the whole thing, and then the Electronics and the SW. May be I'll contact you at a later stage if I have questions. Especially the SW development might be a pitfall...

Cheers,

Andreas

 

[FantomXR]

Hi Andreas,

if you use the NG-App for this task, you will end up with a quite bad velocity resolution. You only will get about 16 different velocity values or so instead of 127. This is due to the lower scan rate.
If you want the full resolution, you'd need to take KB.

[Skunk]

Hi Famtom,

thanks for the feedback! I was not aware of it. I have the STM32F4 Board already in place, so I guess the only chance to change to more than 16 velocity values is to change it somewhere in the NG software. Or is there any physical limitation for the 16 values instead of the 128 that can't be changed in the software? I didn't dig deep into the software yet... Right now I'm taking care about the mechanics, and as soon as this is done I'll take care about the software and electronics. My original goal was just to use what I have in place, and this is the TP/40WOOD and the STM32F407 board. Both I already got years ago, but didn't have the time to build a real master keyboard out of it. And now I have the time to build -- since my retirement approaches... Or do I really need the LPC17 core for the KB instead of the STM32F4?

Thanks,

Andreas

 

[Thoskan]

hi fantomxr and skunk.

As fantom said before, you can use KB software if you want a better scan rate.

But personally, I used the NG software because you can define a velocity curve, and I preferred in terms of feelings.

You can start with KG or NG, whatever and later just change the program. I did that and it was ok.

I made a github deposit after my first experience just to keep a written record because it's a lot of research work when we don't do electronics.

You can visit it : https://github.com/OrangePeelFX/keyboard-fatar-tp40 

Good luck for your project.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Thoskan

[Skunk]

Hi Florian,

this sounds very good for me and meets exactly my original imagination! It fully fits to my plan and you mentioned one thing that is important: you used the same board STM32F4 for both -- the NG as well as the KB software. Out of the KB threads I assumed for a long time that it can only be realized with the  LPC17 board and somehow there were some inconistencies in Thorsten's documentation that confused me. I also had a look on your github page that finally convinced me that I'm on the right track!

Now I can sleep much better again and proceed with the mechanical work...

Thanks & and best regards to Toulouse (I was there last time 20 years ago for business  -- you have nice restaurants over there, for instance the Caves de la Marechale ),

Andreas