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LoopA V2 Introduction, Features & Support Thread


Hawkeye

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@Phatline now, that's a mystery - we'll find the culprit. As a bit of hopeful relief - during the dev time, i tested the LoopA on around 30 synths over here (MIDI OUT function) -> no problems with any of them.

Let's narrow it down - a few ideas, in no particular order, just brainstorming:

* do you have a USB power meter available? It shows the voltage of the USB bus and the power consumption of the connected device. You should measure quite close to 5.00V and a consumption of 0.50 amps, if the matias keys are illuminated. If the voltage is significantly lower or the current is higher, then something is wrong. When the case top is off, you could also measure 5V with a multimeter and check if it is significantly below 5V.

* could you double check if you used 220R resistors near the OUT1-3 ports?

* could you try to swap your USB cable? I've had bad cables causing strange problems, basically as the LoopA draws 500mA, you should also be able to detect this kind of problem with a drop on the 5V rail (first test)

* could you remove the LoopA from its metal case and see if the problem persists (a long/uncut pin on the Core PCB could theoretically touch the case bottom and might cause a short?)

* is the problem only occuring with any MIDI OUT connected to cc-looper/NordRack III or could you reproduce the problem happening also with other synths?

* related: is the problem only occuring when the connected cc-looper/NordRack III devices are powered, or also when they are powered off? Is it also happening when they are powered off and not connected with their power cable to AC mains?

* is the problem also occuring, if you power the LoopA via a USB power bank (no connection of the LoopA to AC mains supply)?

* is the problem also occuring, if you remove the SD card from the LoopA and it enters testmode?

* is the problem also occuring, if you flash the LoopA e.g. with MIDIbox MBNG (STM32F4 variant?)

Just saw that Andy was quicker and posted a few other ideas - i think we should be able to figure this out.

Many greets and have a good evening!
Peter

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PS: is J15_S set to 3.3V? Driving the OLED with 5V might work without visual problems, but could contribute to a higher current draw of the LoopA - to me, it feels the problem could be power (or USB cable) related, especially after you said you had problems powering it with your Lenovo T440p - i've got a T460p and the LoopA works flawlessly on every USB port, would not believe the differences of those laptops are dramatic, that's why i wonder if your LoopA is drawing too much current. If you don't have a USB power meter (as per first suggestion), could you try to rig up a measurement with your multimeter? This might mean you'd have to sacrifice a USB cable potentially, but this cable could then be used for power measurements of other devices, too :). You'd need to dismantle the USB cable somewhere in the middle, cut the red (+5V) wire and connect your multimeter in "amps measurement" mode in between.

Many greets!
Peter

 

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27 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

@Phatline now, that's a mystery - we'll find the culprit. As a bit of hopeful relief - during the dev time, i tested the LoopA on around 30 synths over here (MIDI OUT function) -> no problems with any of them.

Let's narrow it down - a few ideas, in no particular order, just brainstorming:

* do you have a USB power meter available? It shows the voltage the USB bus and the power consumption. You should measure quite close to 5.00V and a consumption of 0.50 amps, if the matias keys are illuminated. If the voltage is significantly lower or the current is higher, something is wrong. When the case top is off, you could also measure 5V with a multimeter and check if it is significantly below 5V no cant measure this at the moment

* could you double check if you used 220R resistors near the OUT1-3 ports? I must correct me, i tested it on OUT 2 and OUT 3 --- and only when i have connected it in OUT 1 i have the problem - what Resistor-NRs are for OUT1? - EDIT: R5 and R4 are 220Ohms.

* could you try to swap your USB cable? I've had bad cables causing strange problems, basically as the LoopA draws 500mA, you should also be able to detect this kind of problem with a drop on the 5V rail (first test) i tried - not chanced.

* could you remove the LoopA from its metal case and see if the problem persists (a long/uncut pin on the Core PCB could theoretically touch the case bottom and might cause a short?) - i removed the black ones - nope. --- dont want to disamble the core pcb ... i will check that later! EDIT: not changed anything, it is standing bare here - without case at all - not changed.

* is the problem only occuring with any MIDI OUT connected to CCLoopA/NordRack III or could you reproduce the problem happening also with other synths? - i also have connected a unpowered lpcore (unpowered means no usb or 5V is plugged into the lpccore) - and there it is als accouring

* related: is the problem only occuring when CCLoopA/NordRack III are powered, or also when they are powered off? Is it also happening when they are powered off and not connected with their power cable to AC mains? as above also on unpowered ones

* is the problem also occuring, if you power the LoopA via a USB power bank (no connection of the LoopA to AC mains supply)? 2A Powerbank or Lenovo Lappy on akku-mode --- dont change a thing

* is the problem also occuring, if you remove the SD card from the LoopA and it enters testmode? doesnt matter - in booth cases

* is the problem also occuring, if you flash the LoopA e.g. with MIDIbox MBNG (STM32F4 variant?) where i can find the project.hex for this? (and is this whise?)

Just saw that Andy was quicker and posted a few other ideas - i think we should be able to figure this out.

Many greets and have a good evening!
Peter

in about 24 minutes the video with the problem showing is up here:

 

Edited by Phatline
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Just now, Hawkeye said:

PS: is J15_S set to 3.3V? Driving the OLED with 5V might work without visual problems, but could contribute to a higher current draw of the LoopA - to me, it feels the problem could be power (or USB cable) related, especially after you said you had problems powering it with your Lenovo T440p - i've got a T460p and the LoopA works flawlessly on every USB port, would not believe the differences of those laptops are dramatic, that's why i wonder if your LoopA is drawing too much current. If you don't have a USB power meter (as per first suggestion), could you try to rig up a measurement with your multimeter? This might mean you'd have to sacrifice a USB cable potentially, but this cable could then be used for power measurements of other devices, too :). You'd need to dismantle the USB cable somewhere in the middle, cut the red (+5V) wire and connect your multimeter in "amps measurement" mode in between.

Many greets!
Peter

 

i dissambled the thing now to get to the  core pcb --- it is set to  3.3V' yes.totale.thumb.jpg.e6dd3a10553ada711030647detail.thumb.jpg.c28ad024dcdd85937c90021

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Cool idea with the mod to add an external bootloader hold switch on JPA0! For it to work, you'd need to install R101/R102 as well.

Because that's not standard and we had not tested it, i have the itching feeling, that somehow the LoopA could get stuck in Bootloader hold mode for any reason, when a MIDI OUT cable is plugged in (and connected to a synth/ground) during power up. The behaviour with it starting fine without a MIDI OUT cable installed just looks like it. @latigid on - without R101/102 installed and the external switch maybe connected to case ground and that maybe connected to MIDI OUT ground, do you believe there might be something floating, locking the MCU in bootloader hold at startup? @Phatline, could you just try to install those two resistors to see if it helps? Or temporarily remove the switch? It's a long shot :)

If that does not help, if possible, please proceed with the other suggestions/tests, i'd be particularly interested in power draw and if your 5V rail is good (something like 4.75V or so is ok).

Many greets,
Peter

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Just now, Hawkeye said:

Cool idea with the mod to external bootloader hold switch on JPA0! For it to work, you'd need to install R101/R102 as well.

Because that's not standard and we had not tested it, i have the itching feeling, that somehow the LoopA could get stuck in Bootloader hold mode for any reason, when a MIDI OUT cable is plugged in (and connected to a synth/ground) during power up. The behaviour with it starting fine without a MIDI OUT cable installed just looks like it. @latigid on - without R101/102 installed and the external switch maybe connected to case ground and that maybe connected to MIDI OUT ground, do you believe there might be something floating locking the MCU in bootloader hold at startup? @Phatline, could you just try to install those two resistors to see if it helps? It's a long shot :)

If that does not help, if possible, please proceed with the other suggestions/tests, i'd be particularly interested in power draw and if your 5V rail is good (something like 4.75V or so is ok).

Many greets,
Peter

interesting, i tested the loopa, without case & with that without the SWITCH

i now soldered in the two 330OHM resistors... now it is working  --- maybe this changes when the device is assembled again... i will report (also i will destroy usb cable to see the power draw :)   )

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@Phatline very good! I am not an electrical engineer, but am now almost convinced something was floating - once you connected the MIDI OUTs to other synths, GND might have crawled onto the case ground, then into the modded switch (screwed to the metal case), from there back into JPA0 and left the MCU in bootloader hold mode, when a cable was plugged into an OUT during bootup.

Cheers and have fun! :cheers:

(If it works now, no need to destroy a perfectly good cable, the poor thing! :))

Many greets,
Peter

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thx... have more detail to the problem i think:

the Bootloader switch was in "bootload" position everytime... i did because, in this position it booted up normal - so i guessed...

now after i give it that 330ohm resistors R102 R101, --- it dont boots up in the same position because it is in "real" bootload position.... after switching it to the other side the problem is gone!

---good to have a functional bootloadswitch in this time... because in some month when i need it in real (hacking into code maybe) - i would come in some serios trouble - because of thinking the switch do its job - and the MCU which is fix soldered - is gone or something :pout:

 

THX :cheers:

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  • 2 weeks later...

this is possibly the closest thing (available, so that discounts zyklus mps) i have seen to my dream midi performance sequencer. I will be putting in an order soon. 

as per our emails Peter, i have a wishlist of features i really hope can be implemented in future to make this machine even better. they would be (in order of priority) :

1/ adding aftertouch and pitchbend as an additional option in the clip 'extra layer' menu along with midi cc. 

2/ midi program change capability for changing patches on connected devices

3/ the ability to make clips either 'looping' or 'one-shot'

a big thank you and well wishes to the team responsible for realising this sequencer 

Regards

Dave

 

 

 

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Edit: On second thought I had problems pushing one or 2 knobs as the heatshrink  gets in the way.

Best to use sellotape like peter said or some thinner material.


I tr ied Peters method of securing the knobs to the shafts of the encoders with Sellotape but I found the tape simply would not stick well to the encoder shafts and sometimes fell down to the bottom causing noise when turning the knobs. 

So I came up with a more permanent or secure method. 

I used blue heathrink as you can see in the first pic that was as close to the diameter of the top half or the  D shape of the shaft and shrunk them with my hot air station at about 200 degrees taking care not to heat up the encoders too much. 

Then I slipped on the knobs with some force and they secured quite nicely.

Only con really is that more force is needed to get them off again but i'd rather that than having loose knobs getting lost!

Hope this is of use to people. 

IMG_20200816_001145-1.thumb.jpg.8bd82122

 

IMG_20200816_002314-1.thumb.jpg.70f7f3e9

Edited by Smithy
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@silverlight2004 Thanks for your kind words! I've added your feature requests to the code roadmap - we hope to bring out v2.07 soon! With the new CC functions being relatively complex, there has been a constant feedback flow from the early beta testers (thank you, you know who you are!), resulting in a few more release candidates than planned for, but all is good - that version should really be final soon with just some minor things to add before publishing.

Afterwards, we'll focus on the MatriX/BLM launch, but after that, there should be time for a next round of LoopA development. As we had one more request for at least Aftertouch/Pitchbend and Program Change requests (at sequencer start), there should be a high likelihood at least these features will be implemented medium term. And i like the "one-shot-clip-launch" idea, too - it would basically result in an auto-muted track after that clip has been played back once. The major problem is not the code, but how to find space in logical locations in the UI for those functions, as most pages are already full :). Would you think it would be ok to fire "one-shots" with a key combination like pressed SELECT encoder while unmuting a clip? Or maybe with a pressed "one-shot" footswitch command, while clips are unmuted? Because i currently don't know, if we have the configuration space in the clip screen to set this variable permanently for it. Will think about it! Best regards to Bali! :)

@Smithy: cheers, well done! Also very cool, that you'll upgrade to the metal case version LoopA! :)

Many greets!
Peter

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24 minutes ago, Elektruck said:

Can I have the stl files so I can print these myself?

Hi Roel,

they should be available in the shop soon :).

Printing these requires a very precise dual extruder 3d printer - note, that these shields go fully around all protrusions of the Matias switches, while being slim enough at the top to allow the key to travel "below them".

Due to the amount of effort involved developing them and capital bound on the printer, we were not planning on releasing the files, capitalism at its worst! :-).

Still, the individual sales price really won't be high, it will be around 50 cents a piece or 7,50€ for a LoopA conversion.

c4ac104f8eba5cb0a276b07b3217da65.jpg

 

The light|shields will also be available in a different variant, with a highly flexible material offering the same level of light isolation, that allows converting desoldered Matias keys without removing the L4 keycaps (which might break them, if one is not careful).

Many greets!
Peter

 

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Ok Ok, that sounds good and I'll go the commercial way! I was just a bit dissapointed when I replaced the caps on my sequencer and still suffered from light bleeding through. But I've all confidence in the professional midishop stuff, so I'll wait for the official ones. Thanx again for the effort

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On 8/16/2020 at 4:26 AM, Hawkeye said:

 

On 8/16/2020 at 4:26 AM, Hawkeye said:

 

On 8/16/2020 at 4:26 AM, Hawkeye said:

@silverlight2004 As we had one more request for at least Aftertouch/Pitchbend and Program Change requests (at sequencer start), there should be a high likelihood at least these features will be implemented medium term. And i like the "one-shot-clip-launch" idea, too - it would basically result in an auto-muted track after that clip has been played back once. The major problem is not the code, but how to find space in logical locations in the UI for those functions, as most pages are already full :). Would you think it would be ok to fire "one-shots" with a key combination like pressed SELECT encoder while unmuting a clip? Or maybe with a pressed "one-shot" footswitch command, while clips are unmuted? Because i currently don't know, if we have the configuration space in the clip screen to set this variable permanently for it. Will think about it! Best regards to Bali! :)

Thanks Peter for your update re: LoopA V2. Great to hear you think it highly likely that Aftertouch/pitchbend and Program Change will be implemented. 

Using a key combination to trigger 'one-shot' mode would be fine, or a footswitch command too....i will leave it to you and the team to decide however you think is best. 

I will be ordering a Looper soon! (it's a beautiful machine)

Regards

Dave

 

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LoopA v2.07 has been released with these new features:

* CC Recording, transformation and generation
* Selective track progression (vs full scene progresion)
* Support for 30 different time signatures
* Polymetric and polyrhythmic sequence support
* Classic step recording mode
* Note velocity dampening effect (also as a footswitch action)

Download here:
https://www.midiphy.com/en/loopa-v2/

Massive thanks to all beta testers, who helped with this one! :)

We've also created a demo video of the essential features of the LoopA - and how these could be used in your creative workflow - this has been requested a few times, so here you go:

@silverlight2004: that's fantastic to hear, hope you'll enjoy it! :)

Best regards,
Peter

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On 8/16/2020 at 4:23 AM, Smithy said:

Edit: On second thought I had problems pushing one or 2 knobs as the heatshrink  gets in the way.

Best to use sellotape like peter said or some thinner material.


I tr ied Peters method of securing the knobs to the shafts of the encoders with Sellotape but I found the tape simply would not stick well to the encoder shafts and sometimes fell down to the bottom causing noise when turning the knobs. 

So I came up with a more permanent or secure method. 

I used blue heathrink as you can see in the first pic that was as close to the diameter of the top half or the  D shape of the shaft and shrunk them with my hot air station at about 200 degrees taking care not to heat up the encoders too much. 

Then I slipped on the knobs with some force and they secured quite nicely.

Only con really is that more force is needed to get them off again but i'd rather that than having loose knobs getting lost!

Hope this is of use to people. 

IMG_20200816_001145-1.thumb.jpg.8bd82122

 

IMG_20200816_002314-1.thumb.jpg.70f7f3e9

On 8/16/2020 at 4:23 AM, Smithy said:



I tried Peters method of securing the knobs to the shafts of the encoders with Sellotape but I found the tape simply would not stick well to the encoder shafts and sometimes fell down to the bottom causing noise when turning the knobs. 

So I came up with a more permanent or secure method. 

I used blue heathrink as you can see in the first pic that was as close to the diameter of the top half or the  D shape of the shaft and shrunk them with my hot air station at about 200 degrees taking care not to heat up the encoders too much. 

Then I slipped on the knobs with some force and they secured quite nicely.

Only con really is that more force is needed to get them off again but i'd rather that than having loose knobs getting lost!

Hope this is of use to people. 

IMG_20200816_001145-1.thumb.jpg.8bd82122

 

IMG_20200816_002314-1.thumb.jpg.70f7f3e9



Updated my post above as the heatshrink was getting in the way of pushing down 1 or 2 knobs. I might try Kapton tape instead now.

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@Smithy Kapton tape should also work great! The encoders are slightly "greasy/oily" - that's how ALPS delivers them - if you have problems that tape does not stick properly to the flat part of the encoder shaft, you could try to clean the flat part of the d-shaft with a wipe first, then attach a tiny bit of tape there - it should usually stick long enough just to push the knob on - and then it's secure! :)

Many greets,
Peter

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Hi, I just finished my LoopA with the new lightshields I got to beta test. The machine looks fantastic and was a really nice build, following the supurb video instructions! The (no) light bleeding is far better than my seqv4+, without the lightshields. I'll definitely install them also in my sequencer, although that means I have to desolder all switches, and resolder them again with the shields. The picture with all lights on has the shields only on the bottom row, so you can see the difference, without the caps...

Cheers!

IMG-20200828-WA0003.jpg

IMG-20200828-WA0002.jpg

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