midiphy SEQ v4+

[southpole]

On 17/12/2018 at 8:51 PM, Smithy said:

Just a little request for builders:

If you are ordering from a different major electronics supplier to Mouser it would be really helpful for people if you could share a BOM for that reatailer. 

A list of BOMs could be added to the wiki, a user on Reddit was asking for a BOM for Tayda for example, a retailer I never heard of before from Thailand but are popular on Muff Wigglers and in the Synth DIY community apparently.

 

Hi Smithy,

just saw your post. i was the user requesting (and now providing :-) ) the Tayda BOM.
it will be only a partial BOM since they only carry quite basic parts.
for now the BOM lives on Google sheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TFORmEMBbFG3oqMcv7UKvtxkn49CxaHfWDaHRXMIvfM/edit?usp=sharing

in principle i agreed with Hawkeye and Andy to share only once confirmed, but I've decided to go through my stock first (including scavenging
some unfinished midibox builds which are now on hold ;-) ) and use parts I already have instead of blindly re-ordering everything from Tayda.
so i will only order what I can't find at home, but maybe someone else finds this list useful in the meantime. 
most of the parts i have are actually from Tayda already. i can make this editable to anyone interested and you are free to copy
and host elsewhere if Google is not the preferred host.

Cheers,
Gerhard

[Hawkeye]

Hi Gerhard,

thanks a lot for your efforts and work on this!

We appreciate alternative parts lists a lot, they can surely help to save quite some money!

One thing i've noticed while quickly browsing it: be aware, that some LEDs may have different specs regarding brightness, for example the 5mm RGB LED for the beat indicator looks like it is a "clear variant" - i've built an early version of the v4+ with one of those and it was a lot brighter than the diffused version in the mouser BOM - therefore different SJ resistors for that LED type would be required. Or you could use one of @Antichambre 's cool aftermarket beat LED diffusors :).

Generally, we'd recommend not to save too much on connectors (like MIDI ports), as your sequencer should live for many years and those connectors will be exposed to some mechanical wear and tear over time - nothing is worse than a MIDI connection going bad during a live jam! :)

Many greets and have fun building your v4+!
Peter

[Antichambre]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

Or you could use one of @Antichambre 's cool aftermarket beat LED diffusors :).

Hey,

If you need more just tell me ;)

Best
Bruno

[Menzman]

Hi everyone,

just finished my first V4+!

-->Big thanks to Peter and Andy for their great work (and support) to make this machine happen! 

 

After playing around for some hours I found out one issue with my build: Always the eights encoder (8 & 16) do not react as expected. The encoders are jumping in the wrong direction and also opening random-like pages/functions when using them. :-(

Edited January 18, 2019 by Menzman

[southpole]

8 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

We appreciate alternative parts lists a lot, they can surely help to save quite some money!

One thing i've noticed while quickly browsing it: be aware, that some LEDs may have different specs regarding brightness, for example the 5mm RGB LED for the beat indicator looks like it is a "clear variant" - i've built an early version of the v4+ with one of those and it was a lot brighter than the diffused version in the mouser BOM - therefore different SJ resistors for that LED type would be required. Or you could use one of @Antichambre 's cool aftermarket beat LED diffusors :).

Generally, we'd recommend not to save too much on connectors (like MIDI ports), as your sequencer should live for many years and those connectors will be exposed to some mechanical wear and tear over time - nothing is worse than a MIDI connection going bad during a live jam! :)

Hi Peter,

I'm happy I can contribute a little bit back after lurking all those years :-)

Concerning the LED, i've marked it in red now which means parts where people should be careful in replacing.

And I checked my previously bought MIDI ports again from both Tayda and Mouser and it's true Tayda seems much cheaper and doesn't have a nice metal casing. I marked those, too.

Another thing I noticed, not related to Tayda, is that the MEC switches are out of stock at Mouser now. too many SEQ V4+ builders? :-)
I did find some at RS so might order from there (unless someone has a huge stock and wants to make a nice offer),
but i'll eventually add more columns for other vendors

Cheers,

Gerhard

[latigid on]

12 hours ago, Menzman said:

Hi everyone,

just finished my first V4+!

-->Big thanks to Peter and Andy for their great work (and support) to make this machine happen! 

 

After playing around for some hours I found out one issue with my build: Always the eights encoder (8 & 16) do not react as expected. The encoders are jumping in the wrong direction and also opening random-like pages/functions when using them. :-(

 

Great work and nice pictures! 

Are the encoder pins in question shorting out on  the pinheaders below? If so, trim the pins a little.

 

 

9 hours ago, gbrandt said:

Hi Peter,

I'm happy I can contribute a little bit back after lurking all those years :-)

Concerning the LED, i've marked it in red now which means parts where people should be careful in replacing.

And I checked my previously bought MIDI ports again from both Tayda and Mouser and it's true Tayda seems much cheaper and doesn't have a nice metal casing. I marked those, too.

Another thing I noticed, not related to Tayda, is that the MEC switches are out of stock at Mouser now. too many SEQ V4+ builders? :-)
I did find some at RS so might order from there (unless someone has a huge stock and wants to make a nice offer),
but i'll eventually add more columns for other vendors

Cheers,

Gerhard

I'd recommend Reichelt for MEC switches. Conrad also sells them, and the caps I think are cheaper there.

[Menzman]

1 hour ago, latigid on said:

Great work and nice pictures! 

Are the encoder pins in question shorting out on  the pinheaders below? If so, trim the pins a little.

 

 

I'd recommend Reichelt for MEC switches. Conrad also sells them, and the caps I think are cheaper there.

Yes!!!! You made my day!!!! :-)

Thanks so much!!!

[ilmenator]

Having a problem with the JA board here, which seems to act like an antenna. I get lots of MIDI messages in MIOS Studio when doing the MBNG check, and LEDs randomly flash. When coming closer with my hand and when turning the PCB in my hand, random activity shows.

[707799.972] 92 2b 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  G-1  Vel:127
[707799.976] b0 12 01   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 1
[707799.976] 90 41 00   Chn# 1  Note Off F-3 (optimized)
[707799.980] b0 12 02   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 2
[707799.983] b0 12 03   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 3
[707799.983] 92 2b 00   Chn# 3  Note Off G-1 (optimized)
[707799.986] 90 41 7f   Chn# 1  Note On  F-3  Vel:127
[707800.071] 92 2b 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  G-1  Vel:127
[707800.075] b0 12 04   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 4
[707800.075] 90 41 00   Chn# 1  Note Off F-3 (optimized)
[707800.079] b0 12 05   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 5
[707800.082] b0 12 06   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 6
[707800.082] 92 2b 00   Chn# 3  Note Off G-1 (optimized)
[707800.085] 90 41 7f   Chn# 1  Note On  F-3  Vel:127
[707800.131] 92 2b 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  G-1  Vel:127
[707800.135] b0 12 07   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 7
[707800.135] 90 41 00   Chn# 1  Note Off F-3 (optimized)
[707800.139] b0 12 08   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 8
[707800.142] b0 12 09   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 9
[707800.142] 92 2b 00   Chn# 3  Note Off G-1 (optimized)
[707800.145] 90 41 7f   Chn# 1  Note On  F-3  Vel:127
[707800.191] 92 2b 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  G-1  Vel:127
[707800.195] b0 12 0a   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 10
[707800.195] 90 41 00   Chn# 1  Note Off F-3 (optimized)
[707800.199] b0 12 0b   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 11
[707800.202] b0 12 0c   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 12
[707800.202] 92 2b 00   Chn# 3  Note Off G-1 (optimized)
[707800.205] 90 41 7f   Chn# 1  Note On  F-3  Vel:127
[707800.251] 92 2b 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  G-1  Vel:127
[707800.254] 90 41 00   Chn# 1  Note Off F-3 (optimized)
[707800.255] b0 12 0d   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 13
[707800.258] b0 12 0e   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 14
[707800.262] b0 12 0f   Chn# 1  CC# 18 = 15

or also

[707853.154] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.175] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.214] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.235] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.256] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.295] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.316] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.337] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.355] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.376] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.414] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.436] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.495] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.516] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.534] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.555] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.594] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.615] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.675] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.696] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.756] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.777] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.795] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.815] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.876] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.896] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.914] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.935] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.957] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707853.977] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707853.995] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707854.016] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707854.034] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707854.055] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)
[707854.076] 92 2a 7f   Chn# 3  Note On  F#1  Vel:127
[707854.097] 92 2a 00   Chn# 3  Note Off F#1 (optimized)

are examples of what goes on. 595s and the 165 are soldered properly, 1N4148 diodes are in correctly, as well as the LEDs. I can trace RC, SC, SO, SI lines from ICs to the header ok, as well as +5V and GND.

Where should I look next? A set of schematics would come in handy now!

 

[latigid on]

Pictures? You can also use the dedicated thread here:

• Did you solder in an isolated resistor network rather than a bussed one? Is the polarity correct?

The random data might indicate floating 165 inputs.

Other ideas:

• Try also with set debug on to see the actual SR positions.
• Is the NG file the LH one, assuming no other boards are connected?
• Is there any conductive flux residue left around the pins?
• Are you using the wCore or something else for testing?
• What is the length of the ribbon cable?

BLM positions are here. SR side is as you would expect, but also attached here for convenience.

Best from snowy Boston,
Andy

[ilmenator]

18 hours ago, latigid on said:

Did you solder in an isolated resistor network rather than a bussed one?

Thanks Andy, that was the hint I needed. Looks like my "client" ordered the wrong parts - maybe he used an old(er) BOM version? Just a guess, I'm not going to check this further. Now let's get creative with the removal of the bad boy...

[latigid on]

Glad that you got it sorted! 

Either a hot-air reflow station or TK.'s special trick with a thin wire underneath the SOIC is recommended (this was done for harvesting old chips used in OPL3 modules).

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by latigid on

[latigid on]

Desoldering tips for FM chips.

Edited January 21, 2019 by latigid on

[ilmenator]

I was thinking of clipping the legs carefully one by one and then removing them as I proceed - has anybody tried this before?

[latigid on]

This could work too. Though, there may be a risk that you end up ripping of the SMT pads with the force.

You could ask @rbv2 as he had the same issue. A lot of solder/Chip Quik? Maybe even using a lot of solder to immoblise each pin (effectively binding each pin together with solder or even using scotch tape), then clipping?

Edited January 22, 2019 by latigid on

[rbv2]

hi,

was quite easy with a lot of solder and lifting the sides one by one. I used some tweezers and a bigger tip on the soldering iron.

Just be patient and wait until enough heat and solder is applied. i even reused the isolated resistor network afterwards.

you will need desoldering braid to clean the pads otherwise the new part will not sit flat enough to reach the pads.

 

good luck

Edited January 22, 2019 by rbv2

[Hawkeye]

Agreed, the solution with tweezers and a lot of solder works nicely, had to do this a few times, too! Just try to avoid "pull-up" movements with the tweezers, as these might lift the pads.

Another trick is to use two irons at once, if you have them available, even a backup 5€ cheap one from the hardware store will work :). For that, you also use a lot of solder to tin all pins first to achieve thermal conductivity. But then you heat up both sides of the smt part at once, holding both irons flat to heat up all pins. Then you can very easily push off the smt part after just two or three seconds of heating - usually no damage done and the removed part can be reused.

Many greets and good luck!
Peter

[Antichambre]

If you're patient you can order an hot air station for a few.
When my weller felt, I ordered this one in the hurry thinking that it will be temporary. Finally I didn't ordered a new professional one cause this chinese Baku does the job.
For less than 60$.
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1PC-free-shipping-220V-BAKU-BK-601D-LED-Digital-Display-Hot-Air-SMD-Rework-Station-Solder/32710858274.html?spm=a2g17.search0104.3.36.2dda51baNT7k5T&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_319_10892_317_10696_453_10084_454_10083_433_10618_431_10304_10307_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10843_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_59,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=dc792ded-6237-41d5-ba4e-70cfbec6007a-5&algo_pvid=dc792ded-6237-41d5-ba4e-70cfbec6007a
 

best
Bruno

[latigid on]

The good thing about the resistor networks is they aren't hugely sensitive to heat. CMOS chips on the other hand...

I would also recommend a hot air station. I have something similar to what Bruno linked, but the fan is in the main box rather than the "nozzle".

They're useful for other things too, like desoldering (or soldering) large metal parts like heatsinks, pin headers or jacks, or when the PCB designer doesn't use thermal isolation pads on parts attached to the 0V plane.

I even made crème brûlée with it once! 

[Antichambre]

13 minutes ago, latigid on said:

I even made crème brûlée with it once! 

Funny!

[Phatline]

@lcsc.com:

i have ordered there over the 20€-free area... ordered 200€ there, and paid +150€ taxes (austria, import tax, and zoll) - dont think that it is cheaper to import cheap china parts, instead of reichelt, mouser and co.

the duty department of austria had a lot of questions- why i order 5000 parts - and didnt believe that it is non comercial...bla bla... ( it is not hard to get over 5000 parts, when the minimum order of a smd resistor is 50 100 or 200 pieces...) @ the end of the day i had massive bill --- so be aware.

 

best mike

[ilmenator]

18 hours ago, latigid on said:

Though, there may be a risk that you end up ripping of the SMT pads with the force.

Yeah, I've lost pads 10 and 11. 10 probably doesn't matter because it seems as if it was solitary with no connection leading towards it, but 11 seems to be the one going to the via hole next to it. Where does this connect to? I will run a thin wire there...

[ilmenator]

--

Edited January 22, 2019 by ilmenator
accidental double post

[latigid on]

11 goes to the nearer encoder leg. If it's more convenient, just bridge the encoder leg closest to the RN to pin 9 on the resistor network. As long as the bottom trace is still okay, the pull-up just goes the long way around.

[ilmenator]

Success, no more jittering and the encoder seems to behave normally. Thanks for the quick reply!

[synaptech]

Just wanted to send some quick praise for the full kit packaging, amazing job with the labeling! The case looks fantastic!

Everything is going together great so far, finished everything except the two LeMEC boards, should hopefully have it all working in the next few days!

Edited February 3, 2019 by synaptech