MB-6582 baseboard part kits

[Smithy]

You don't have to be sorry.

Era, if i read the post properly i wouldnt have to do ask that question!  :P :P

And i only did it out of a mark of respect, because i deeply appreciate everything yourself, TK, and Smash do.

And any other helpful peeps in the Community.

[robert lowell]

so i was wondering... i have a few other kits/parts that i'd like to order and make a 9090 seq to match my mb-808 a  mb-fm & possibly more... will you work with me so to order everything i need at once and have it shipped along with a mb-6582 kit to avoid extra shipping fees.  i live in the US btw.  thanks... 

[smashtv]

pffft.

hehe  ;)

so i was wondering... i have a few other kits/parts that i'd like to order and make a 9090 seq to match my mb-808 a  mb-fm & possibly more... will you work with me so to order everything i need at once and have it shipped along with a mb-6582 kit to avoid extra shipping fees.  i live in the US btw.  thanks...

Robert that is not a problem, check your private messages.

Best Regards

SmashTV

[stryd_one]

I can see where Kartoshka's coming from... He needed to know if he could do this project or not.

Direct response to you and Kartoshka:

Ask once, wait for answer patiently. Don't get an answer by the time you need it? Maybe ask one more time, then find another project. Easy.

Indirect response to the situation:

Look, it's like some kind of a f***ed up MIDIBox tradition that this happens:

Dude gets school project.

Dude thinks "MIDIBox would be good, I'll do that".

Dude plans poorly. **

Dude realises his project is near-due and is unlikely to be completed on time.

Dude redirects frustration at this predicament towards the community.

(and the oldtimers around here will tell you that it happens with surprising regularity)

** Choosing a relaxed DIY project like MIDIBox may be the first mistake. We're having fun here and might not feel like having your school deadlines imposed upon us. It is a great way to learn! I highly recommend it for that purpose... Just, maybe not in a fixed time-frame.

** Choosing a brand-new project that does not have the parts available and has only been completed by it's creator would certainly be a mistake.

Fact is, if you start a project that does not have all the requirements ready and available by a deadline, and you have to meet a deadline, you blew it before you started. Step #1, is to accept that you screwed up, noone else.

Congratulations, you went to school to learn stuff, and you did: Meeting a deadline for completion, means meeting deadlines for milestones, having the parts is definitely a milestone, and NOBODY - that includes SmashTV and futurlec and any store or person that I am aware of - will agree to meet deadlines for shipping parts to you. This means that you need the parts in hand before you even consider a midibox (or any electronics project) as a school project. So you went there to study EE, and discovered that there's some free Project Management training included. What a wonderful education!

Now, if you are wondering if your project can be done, or if you already did screw up - it happens to us all - we're all helpful as can be around here, so if you ask for help respectfully you'll get all that you could wish for... But even that may not be enough. If you ask for help disrespectfully, you'll get even less help, and it will almost surely not be enough. In addition you may just piss someone off and start an argument which gets nobody anywhere.

Oh and FWIW, I'm not talking to Kartoshka, I'm talking to all of you. Accept the burden of your own responsibilities and decisions, don't try to handball them to this community, and especially not people like Smash or TK or Twinny who hold this place together. Treat others with the respect they deserve. Or I'll use DB/El Barto's slingshot on you ;D

[sineSurfer]

way off topic:

I still wonder how soldering components on a pre made pcb (by someone else) can qualify as a school project and get you a good grade?

I guess it would work if the class is "electronic components soldering 1", but that's about it.

On the other side, I can see anyone getting a good grade by programming a new killer app for any of the midiBox projects

no offense intended here: is the world getting dumber? ;D

[Wisefire]

is the world getting dumber? ;D

Yes..

[huck]

Yes..

?

what? got any doritos ?

[DavidBanner]

way off topic:

I still wonder how soldering components on a pre made pcb (by someone else) can qualify as a school project and get you a good grade?

I guess it would work if the class is "electronic components soldering 1", but that's about it.

On the other side, I can see anyone getting a good grade by programming a new killer app for any of the midiBox projects

no offense intended here: is the world getting dumber? ;D

i have wondered this very same thing, and often wondered what kind of smoke and mirrors would be required to grab an amazing grade and look a genius would be required...

I also doubt programming an app on midibox would be enough - 99.9% of teachers at sub university level aren't going to have the knowledge or time to understand SDCC, ASM etc etc...

But hey I'm assuming based on my experience - for all I know they are handing out PHDs with every Velleman kit submitted in a working order somewhere....

[asafnetzer]

I think you have missed the project Idea, It's not about soldering or presenting the MB-6582 as a final project,

It's about creating the graphic environment for a product, In this case a synth, could be Milk as well.

::) Well, i'd better find another topic of research, like type design / book design / illustration / everything else, rather than  developing now a good-looking, easily accessed, illustrated and readable construction manual/brochure plus package design for mb6582.

I took it as a great idea to make connection between something like SID sound with it's concrete visual world, and our childhood memories. Every time i hear THAT sound i'm flooded with rainbow colors and pixel graphics...

Combining with my final project, wanted to give something to community too, not creating something commercial which most graphics design is all about.

;)

[DavidBanner]

I think you have missed the project Idea, It's not about soldering or presenting the MB-6582 as a final project,

It's about creating the graphic environment for a product, In this case a synth, could be Milk as well.

"graphic environment" - mmm, what do you mean by that?

the CS layout is determined by the PCBs so it's not "interface design", the case is off the shelf, so that leaves the silkscreen &/or a CNC or manual metal work job on a pre-designed panel.

The only thing I can see of any merit would be the silkscreen if you were doing a graphic design course, and then it would be invalid unless you compared the original with the new design and showed how much better it was...

[sineSurfer]

...It's about creating the graphic environment for a product, In this case a synth, could be Milk as well...

please correct me if I'm wrong but to create a "graphic environment" you don't even need the product to exist, let alone have a working example available... it's all about your abilities to convey an idea.

I can't imagine any design student buying a ferrari just because he/she will be creating a new graphic environment for it... it would be a success with the opposite sex though ;D

btw, my comment was not aimed at anyone in particular, I just don't like the idea of kids seeing a DIY kit of any kind as a shortcut to a good grade... and most of all I hate the idea of teachers allowing the kids to get away with it.

DB: PHDs in exchange of a working Velleman kit?

back in the day I had to code in Basic, starting from zero, a searchable database for a big magazine collection just to get a tiny little boy scout insignia... how things change.

[asafnetzer]

I can't imagine any design student buying a ferrari just because he/she will be creating a new graphic environment for it... it would be a success with the opposite sex though ;D

:) Ofcourse no student would buy a Ferrari just for a project and as a designer you should know how to work without it, but It will always be simpler and more efficient to have the product in hand, if and when you design an all new object/product then it's all about you and the needs of the client/market or who ever this design is aimed for (even self wise).

Best Regards,

Asaf

[LaRssA]

yay! my kits were in the mail the other day, so I've started soldering :D

[Kartoshka]

"graphic environment" - mmm, what do you mean by that?

;D first of all, ppl, thanks for hot discussion, that's the reason i love you there  ::)

well graphic environment, or visual environment, for my mind, is everything you see/hear/know about the product, without actually touching it.

let's assume it is a set of all the truths told or shown by some interested folks, that exists solely in consumer's minds, before they actually meet the product.

Graphical environment is essentially everything we see, even if we're alone in the forest,or drowning in the middle of pacific ocean.

for what i meant to do, is — DB, you're right — also a diffferent silkscreen/painted box/maybe different box at all to stylish the visual concept, but in addition, an operation manual, assembling manual and package design for folks like me, interested in music but cluesless in electronics. The whole idea of music is to be able to express yourself, so more people it can reach, better the world would be. Instead of fighting, stealing, killing and other amoral behaviour patterns like that, humanity could be more happy, smiling and overall more satisfied.  ;)

One of my difficulties with this project was lack of programming knowledge, for example to modify the mbsid/mios to have faders/motorfaders/additional pots/enconders/joystick style controllers, and color multitouch lcd in particular (which will become all-common in 5-10 years period, for my belief), which would only emphasize the essence of mbSID.

Why knobs/faders? Why encoders? Why lcds? Is this a common technique we're all got used to, or is it really better way of controlling the sounds? If, as smash says, we plan to march next 20 years with same instument, maybe it's a good consideration to think of new interfaces. Or not... Any case, should take this into account.

The way research goes is discovering new, more intuitive interfaces to control sound, example NIME, instead mimicking existing and traditionally complicated for newcomers pots/faders/knobs/data input scheme.

Eitan Shefer, industrial designer from my academy, made this project as his final, in 2005:

Think of playing the instrument, and playing with instrument.

Wilba said, he begun designing his 6582 to have a pro-looking mbsid to suit his needs.

(Wilb' please, no offence - i do like it and this is the reason i want to make it)

But what is pro-looking? Who decides which is pro-looking and what are the guides for creating a pro-looking instrument?

If ease of use, simple layout, overall visual look, or clever internal design makes instrument pro-looking?

Or maybe a monome or lemur, ipod or audiocommander's kII is pro-looking?

I think this decision is very subjective, although some guidelines can be traced.

Some of them may, or may also not include references to Design Traditions, Seriousness/Fun, Typographic Design statements - in design itself as well as in engraved or screened descriptions.

While not being able to cover any of those questions, all i can do for midibox SID from graphic designer point of view, is to:

a) think of them and taking them into account, and

b) create something which i've been trained of, and which is, how surprising, graphic design.

And, if not modifying, but making (graphically designed  ;)) package and representation,

How would you design a package for a product like midibox SID? Which are the points you'd mark as the most important and fully representating the essence of what midibox SID (accent on SID), gives you?...

Traditional/revolutionary design? pixel-like square box or amorphous liquid-and-life-like shapes?

Basically, sound from 80's, a 8 bit sound, but with recently rediscovered powerful features found on acid 303, plus nifty synthersizer capabilities which TK kindly publishes from time to time, how you project this set of truths on somebody else without actually hearing/demonstrating the instrument?

This is the graphical environment i talk about.

questions?  ;)

[Kartoshka]

please correct me if I'm wrong but to create a "graphic environment" you don't even need the product to exist, let alone have a working example available... it's all about your abilities to convey an idea.

I can't imagine any design student buying a ferrari ;D

basically, that's correct, but if you present just an idea without the product itself, it feels kinda like masturbating, "with your abilities to convey the idea"  ;D

and... for a final project, you'd put every effort you can, to achieve the top and not just to get rid of.

Correct me if i'm wrong, Sine.  ;)

To Asaf, (as a designer you should know how to work without it):

agree, but when we face up a product as special as mbsid, i think it's really better idea to first get used to it, and later, clearly explain it's functions and operational modes in manual; again, for folks like me who hardly know how to turn their soldering iron on but do want to explore enchanting and amusing soundscapes, unavailable for them before.

[Smithy]

it feels kinda like masturbating, "with your abilities to convey the idea"   ;D

LOL 

[sineSurfer]

if you present just an idea without the product itself, it feels kinda like masturbating, "with your abilities to convey the idea"  ;D

hehehe, you will be amazed at how often you will be feeling exactly that on any design related work, where for the most part you don't have time enough nor all the resources to do things as you imagined.

and... for a final project, you'd put every effort you can, to achieve the top and not just to get rid of.

Correct me if i'm wrong, Sine.  ;)

you're right Kartoshka, shall I add: for every project  ;D

now, back on topic:

for those rushing to get the parts to build the mb6582: there is a parts list and also a list of online stores to place an order on the wiki.

for those without pcbs: patience, patience and more patience... smashTv will tell when pcbs are ready.

You don't have patience? go buy another thing to build while waiting ;)

nothing too complicated, right?

[DavidBanner]

Kartoshka,

Phew, ultra long and detailed post, I get exactly what you mean now. We would use the terms Industrial Design and Packaging Design to describe that process in the UK.

a diffferent silkscreen/painted box/maybe different box at all to stylish the visual concept, but in addition, an operation manual, assembling manual and package design for folks like me, interested in music but cluesless in electronics.

I do think this would take a lot longer than you have, but please share and add to the wiki and notes etc you make or have made along the way, I'm sure there would be some very useful info there...

One of my difficulties with this project was lack of programming knowledge, for example to modify the mbsid/mios to have faders/motorfaders/additional pots/enconders/joystick style controllers, and color multitouch lcd in particular (which will become all-common in 5-10 years period, for my belief), which would only emphasize the essence of mbSID.

I'm not sure anyone has managed to get a multitouch lcd working with a midibox.

If you are doing this project as a "mock commercial" project, i.e. doing it as if you were in the real world taking a product to market you would need to consider a few other things too: Cost of components, Ability to obtain components, Tooling Costs, Lead Times, Retail Price Points, and also what your target market wants/needs/expects, cutting edge designs can fall on their face if the market isn't ready for it or is happier doing the way they have always done it...

[Wisefire]

id rather call it interaction design..

or you could call it interface design..

[DavidBanner]

interface design is different.

interface design that would describe the functionality, user interface and hardware (i.e. button) selection

[Kartoshka]

If you are doing this project as a "mock commercial" project, i.e. doing it as if you were in the real world taking a product to market you would need to consider a few other things too: Cost of components, Ability to obtain components, Tooling Costs, Lead Times, Retail Price Points, and also what your target market wants/needs/expects, cutting edge designs can fall on their face if the market isn't ready for it or is happier doing the way they have always done it..

David, academy of art allows you to put aside marketing considerations and concentrate only on what you been trained of. In this case, let marketing people do these calculations and make their B.A there.

B.Des is all about Design.

[R64]

Digressions aside, I'm in for 1 full kit.

SmashTV please take your sweet time.

Because I am a serial procrastinator and have unfinished projects in varying states of incompletion in various boxes and on surfaces around the house, even after I receive your kit, it will probably sit in a box for a good 6 months before I get a chance to do anything meaningful with it.

One day I may end up making some music.

But yeah if you could give us another few months at least before assembling my kit so I can finish at least 2 of my current projects.

I'm sure anyone else in the forum who is waiting for parts or PCBs could make a Ghostbusters pack, MAME cabinet, Mod a C64 for Prophet64/MSSIAH, circuit-bend a Speak n Spell, or do something really nice for their wife/girlfriend.

[Goblinz]

Digressions aside, I'm in for 1 full kit.

SmashTV please take your sweet time.

Because I am a serial procrastinator and have unfinished projects in varying states of incompletion in various boxes and on surfaces around the house, even after I receive your kit, it will probably sit in a box for a good 6 months before I get a chance to do anything meaningful with it.

One day I may end up making some music.

But yeah if you could give us another few months at least before assembling my kit so I can finish at least 2 of my current projects.

I'm sure anyone else in the forum who is waiting for parts or PCBs could make a Ghostbusters pack, MAME cabinet, Mod a C64 for Prophet64/MSSIAH, circuit-bend a Speak n Spell, or do something really nice for their wife/girlfriend.

It just so happens that i have a speak and spell sat on the desk waiting to be violated... I also need a Ghostbusters pack for fancy dress at some festivals this year.

            G

[/tilted/]

Digressions aside, I'm in for 1 full kit.

SmashTV please take your sweet time.

Because I am a serial procrastinator and have unfinished projects in varying states of incompletion in various boxes and on surfaces around the house, even after I receive your kit, it will probably sit in a box for a good 6 months before I get a chance to do anything meaningful with it.

One day I may end up making some music.

But yeah if you could give us another few months at least before assembling my kit so I can finish at least 2 of my current projects.

I'm sure anyone else in the forum who is waiting for parts or PCBs could make a Ghostbusters pack, MAME cabinet, Mod a C64 for Prophet64/MSSIAH, circuit-bend a Speak n Spell, or do something really nice for their wife/girlfriend.

Guilty Guilty Guilty.

Speak n Math, Speak n Spell II, countless other toys, about 16 SmashTV boards, 25 Motorfaders, about 200 illuminated switches, 2 MB6582 Base PCBs, 2 ReBote delays, 2 SansAmp clone boards... All awaiting me to do SOMETHING with them! A lot of spent bench space, not a lot of activity... Glad to hear I'm not the only one in the world who needs to take time off work for "shed time"!

[Smithy]

Speak n Math, Speak n Spell II, countless other toys, about 16 SmashTV boards, 25 Motorfaders, about 200 illuminated switches, 2 MB6582 Base PCBs, 2 ReBote delays, 2 SansAmp clone boards... All awaiting me to do SOMETHING with them! A lot of spent bench space, not a lot of activity... Glad to hear I'm not the only one in the world who needs to take time off work for "shed time"!

You big bender.  ;)