/tilted/

Nice one fraulein. ;D

well, I'm sorry, but I think you started this.. This is not about university student elitism. I went to university to study digital systems design and implementation, not music. After I left the course (see avatar tag line), I took (read as, sneaked into) music lectures. When it came time to do presentations/assignments/exams, the lecturer realised that I wasn't enrolled, and that I was taking the lectures without paying, but also without any promise of a qualification. Wheras many lecturers probably would've called security at this point and removed me from campus, I had fortunately struck a friendship with the guy, and he realised that my motives were altruistic, not malicious, and allowed me to stay for another several semesters, also advising me as to other classes I might like (which he also took, or in which the other lecturers were like-minded), and allowing me to join the experimental ensemble, in which I performed for around 4 years. So no, I don't have a 'qualification' in music. But I still have several years of study for the sake of learning, not for the sake of a pretty certificate. Hmmmm.. so, are you saying perhaps, that certain top 10 charting tracks heard on radio and TV doesn't seem (to you) (and also to me... :P) to fit a standard definition of "music". I'm sure you would conceed that the same tracks are considered "music" to those who actually go out there and buy these shitty records. This is starting to sound a little like the "eye of the beholder" definition to me... :) "Sound" and "sounds" should be taken as the same thing in this definition. "sound" without pluralisation can (and probably should) be taken as a plural. So to me, it does say "sounds". Sort of. Secondly, I think "color" in this definition is meant to mean "timbre", so it should stay. Music will often be percieved differently if played by a different intrument. You don't have to like cage. You don't have to get cage. You also don't have to hate on him. See also Battles. Yes, this is precisely where we differ. It's ok though, we're allowed to differ. In fact, the very fact that we differ fits neatly into my early definition. ::) No, sound exists in time. Sound is not by definition 'organised' (I'm sure many of us are kooky enough to recognise that, and that we make these sounds both voluntarily and involuntarily all the time ;D). It's the organisation which makes it an artform, not the simple fact that it exists. A musical score makes no sound of it's own (unless you scrunch it up and throw it in the bin), but it is still organised. Edit: Even if that 'organisation' simply consists of a page divided into three sections, each saying 'play nothing'. As an interesting by-the-by, the cage piece to me loses its musicality if ever it is recorded. It still serves its purpose when performed in concert, but as a recorded piece it is virtually pointless. Agreed, sort of.

How about 3 years of tertiary study? Not just owning books? Anyway, I don't want to get into that shit. It takes no qualification to judge what music is, and I'm not going to be brow-beaten into submission here, it is a discussion, not a street fight. Try not to get all "ghetto rulez" on me. I'm not interested in who's books are bigger and tougher than who's... :P So what, are you saying that the only meaning that is true is the first one in each entry? Or that there is inherently some sort of heirarchy given to different meanings? The numbers used in this instance are not to denote heirarchy, but should be treated as dot-points. Well spotted, in this instance, the term is used in a poetic or metaphoric way. See also "music of the spheres", "cosmic ballet" etc. This actually means that it is not a definition of the artform, but of the metaphorical use of the word. My bad, didn't read it carefully enough (pre-coffee) ::) - I certainly wouldn't avoid buying a dictionary just because I didn't agree with one of the definitions inside. ;) OK then, let's go with the first definition from the same entry: 1. an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color. Sound in time is a good cross-point here, as to me, it means at least two sounds, either co-existing in the same time, or realised in two or more discrete points in time (you might call this "rhythm and melody"). ;D I'll certainly conceed that one sound on its own should not be considered music, nor should a truck full of violins, or a recording of background noise. All said, I can agree with this definition, as: it gives no specific weighting to any of the four elements mentioned, (particularly, is doesn't isolate two of the four and hold them in higher regard than the other two); it mentions the fact that music is an art form, and that it expresses ideas and emotions. (these are, to me, at least if not more important than the elements involved) this definition emphasises the expression, the artistic intention. Now you're just being a turd. Most of what Cage was about was finding new methods of composition. He invented the 'prepared piano' because he had a gig to do where he wanted a percussion group, but only had a small space with a grand piano he couldn't remove. Rather than giving up on the gig, or writing music for an instrument he didn't want, he modified the instrument. In a different century (or later the same century), he probably would have been a midiboxer. ;D Then, late in his career, he writes one piece, consisting of three movements, in each the instruction "tacet" (without speaking/sounding) is given. This piece is unfortunately SO revolutionary that it completely eclipses everything else he did, so now no-one even remembers his other work, he's just 'the guy who copped out and wrote play nothing on the page'. Is this any less a compostion than a jazz chart consisting only of chord names, with the melody and chord voicing to be improvised as wanted? Or an 'adagio' as originally intended, where the performers were to play at whatever tempo or tempi they feel, and to shift the tempo and rhythm to personal musical taste? - Unfortunately the term 'adagio' has since been taken by its literal translated meaning simply- 'slowly'... This is irrelevant. And in any case, it wasn't my dog, cause I always take bags with me. :) If you find a discarded photograph in the street, is that art? If you later attend a gallery opening and find the same photograph for sale, is it now art? Is the one you found earlier, now art? Edit: removed irrelevant anecdote.

What happens if you mute /disconnect the left channel? What happens if you mute /disconnect the right channel? Are you sure your mixer channel is stereo? Many stereo mixers have mono inputs...

Nope, you're wrong, but that said, both of these are a minimum requirement if you wish to sell records. ;D Words change their meanings all the time. Examples: current cookie crash finger (a personal favourite - ever seen a film called "hot fuzz"?) :P ice And by the way: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/music 6. any sweet, pleasing, or harmonious sounds or sound: the music of the waves. Cage was an artist. It is the duty of the artist to try new things, even if stryd_one doesn't understand why. This is a direct contradiction to me. I'm saying that the final judgement for what is music is reserved for every single being or entity which hears the sound. I'm saying that I can no sooner judge for you what is music, than you can judge for me, or that I could judge for some as yet undiscovered gaseous entity of unimaginable power. This is why I see it as a pointless exercise. Of course, since this is a discussion on artistic form, use of terms like right, wrong, minimum etc (ie, absolutes) are really the only pointless element. The element of final judgement also allows for the cranky old man sitting on his porch screaming at "you freakin kids" to "turn off that noise". He is right in his judgement that he is not hearing music, and the freakin kids are right in their own judgement that it is music.

Ah, but you see, you're missing something crucial in my definition. We were talking about what makes music, but this has been confused with quantifying the 'minimum' requirement for something to be musical. This is a pointless exercise. There is no minimum requirement. Music is art, and art doesn't work like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cage#World.27s_slowest.2C_longest_concert My definition: It's only music if I say it is. Is meant as a alternate wording of: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My definition of course also allows for the exclusion of stuff that I don't like. ;D

Yes, I could have added a tag. Maybe I should have added a tag. But it would have to be a tag like "Hey /tilted/, read this again and again"... otherwise it just wouldn't work for me. Coulda shoulda woulda. Whoa. Hey Stryd, did you know it also works the other way!! Copy a slab of text containing web links and paste into the bookmark library [ctrl+shift+B], and it slams all those links in there for you! Alas, the page names are not saved with the paste, so all the names are displayed as http://www... etc. Sweet!

Overruled I disagree. I think the ONLY criteria for a sound or group of sounds to be music is that it is perceived by the listener to be musical. Mind you, as I get older, I lose my faith in other people's perception of what is musical. Allow me to re-phrase this: It's only music if I say it is.

Please ignore this reply. I'm only posting so I can find this thread more quickly. ::)

Oh, go on! Get Bob Yannes involved! He'd love it! ...possibly, or maybe: "What's this? Oh, another one of these freakin kids wants to talk about the sid!" ;D

Baapida boopy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhuOicPFZY ;D

Too true. Don't sweat it if there's a delay shipping out. Also... Where are my chips???! :P

No need to worry about the resitance test. If the bridge is soldered correctly you'll get a pretty massive resistance anyway. I'd advise you check and double and triple check polarity of the bridge, the electros, the regulator, your connections... any chance of a photo?

If you disconnect the supply, and get 9VAC across the pins at the DIN socket, than you have not ruined your supply. If it is possible, I'd check the resistance across the the 9V input pins on your new supply board. You might have soldered the bridge rectifier backwards...

Often with products such as these there is an internal switch, or a pin header, or a jumper wire, which can be re-oriented to set the voltage as required. Dare I say it, you might need to open the box. Edit: Oops, you just answered it.

What have you changed? Something must have changed to get different results. It could be something obvious, like a cable, or a controller, or something a little more subtle, like you turned the case over... or mounted something new into the case. We could always start with the basics: What are you building? What point are you at? Not a lot to go by in your question...

Ouch. I think Ted just made me stupider.

Don't be offended. I meant freaks in a good way. I'm a freak too.

Very pretty. Almost TOO pretty... They look like they'd fit in very well with a certain famous brand of expensive computers. /tilted/ is really not trying to start trouble.

Man! I gotta move to Europe. So many freaks. ;D

Looks nice. Has staggered keys (don't tell stryd) Illumination works only under XP and Vista (don't tell cimo, smashTV, sineSurfer...etc) Illumination does not even work under linux (yet) (don't tell nils or anyone else...) Looks very nice though! (I should know, I'm a guru now!!!)

... and if you really insist, you could build the thing in a keyboard case, and hang a USB cable off the end.

I've built two complete baseboard PCBs using parts that I had already at home. On two occasions, I found that I had run out of something, or otherwise needed to buy extra parts. The majority of parts on these boards are very common. The rest are PICs (quite common) and SID chips (well....)

It's not just the Kangaroos you need to be weary of... BTW, urban legend (and possibly fact) suggests that "Kangaroo" might have been an indigenous word for "I don't understand you" ie: WHITEY: "I say old chap, what be the name of that odd jumping mouse the size of a house?" NATIVE: "Kangaroo?" WHITEY: "Well sir, in honour of your traditions, and as recompense for shooting you all, we shall call it the Kangaroo"