Echopraxia Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 I plan on using my MBseq for both harware and vst instruments. Wilba, is the pcb definately going to include the encoder slots? I was thinking about if people want only the pcb and not the case ect.. they will probalby use there own buttons lights ect. Or maybe the easiest thing to do would be to leave you alone and buy the damn thing and just cut off the encoder portion of the pcb itself. Just a thought. Please don't hurt me. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugfight Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 can't resist...must post design idea...losing will...any chance your cutouts will fit this midi jack?http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=CP-1235-NDit's verrry niiica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganchan Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 this project is interesting, i've noticed that i've not so much time to project myself a seq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogah Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 HA HA!I knew you'd break down and offer this to some people 8) glad to see it, and I'm in...although I'd like to use different switches.. and some special knobs.. and can you make the case white.. LOL ;)I'm in, depending a bit on the shipping cost to USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekwhensir Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 I am game. Count me in for one.*The soldering iron is mightier than the pen and the sword* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Design ideas are welcome, especially relating to the case and sockets.However, the control surface layout was highly optimized and tweaked to make it fit. This is why I've used rectangular buttons instead of round, so there's enough room for a LED above and labels below, and three rows of buttons under the encoders.Wilba, is the pcb definately going to include the encoder slots? I was thinking about if people want only the pcb and not the case ect.. they will probalby use there own buttons lights ect. Or maybe the easiest thing to do would be to leave you alone and buy the damn thing and just cut off the encoder portion of the pcb itself. Just a thought. Please don't hurt me. ;)Encoders, switches, LEDs and DIN/DOUT modules are all on one PCB.It's designed to use the eswitch 12x12mm tact and a rectangular button cap, and discrete 3mm LEDs.Design consideration here was not to force usage of an illuminated switch (or switch with built-in LED) when not all buttons require LEDs.However, the switch footprint on the PCB has alternate pads for MEC's multimec illuminated switches, and for e-switch's TL1240, however, that would require a custom panel and the layout won't be as nice I think.any chance your cutouts will fit this midi jack?http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=CP-1235-NDMaybe.I'm preparing an extra PCB to mount the rear sockets, so people can use PCB mount 5-pin DIN sockets. Common and cheap, which is good, and it makes it easy to convert to the rack mountable option - just unscrew this PCB and screw it to the base.The only problem I had with panel mounted MIDI sockets was that the cheap ones look crap, and the nice ones (like the one you linked) are expensive-ish... considering you'll need 10 at the back, that's $27 just for MIDI sockets. It's also another part needing a bulk order.Also, they need to be mounted from the outside, so you could not do something like have an IDC connector on the MIDI In+Out header of the ultracore and split the ribbon cable to two sockets... well you could but then you couldn't move the sockets without desoldering the wires. (I know two SIL connectors would work, but then that's imposing their use too.) I know swapping between desktop and rack-mounted is not something people will do often, but it would be nice if it only required a screwdriver.So you raise an interesting point - should all the rear panel sockets be panel mounted, avoiding the need for another PCB for sockets, a bracket to hold it to the case?Can someone suggest a panel mountable DC power socket and power switch?Should a bulk order for switches and caps, for example, also include these rear panel sockets and switch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futureman Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I'm guessing these would need a special cut out? But they are dirt cheap.. and they do come in black.http://cgi.ebay.com.au/50-5-Pin-DIN-Panel-Jack-Socket-Clamp-Snap-In-Type-W5D_W0QQitemZ290245143948QQihZ019QQcategoryZ117488QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 After chatting with bugfight, I'm reverting back to the original plan of panel mount sockets and switch.This avoids the need for an extra PCB and mounting bracket. I estimate the additional cost of this PCB and mounting bracket would be more than the cost difference between el-cheapo PCB mount sockets and snazzy chrome plated panel mount ones like bugfight suggested (but hey I wanted to use these originally so don't give him any credit!).Oh so shiny...Considering some poor guy is going to run a bulk order from Digi-Key for the switches and button caps anyway, surely buying 500 of these sockets wouldn't be much more hassle. :PThe 500 price break is $1.53... $15.30 for sockets vs. $5-$10 for PCB mounted sockets + $5 PCB + mounting bracket ($???) + design issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futureman Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Oh, I forgot.. count me in for 1 !I'm down for panel mount sockets.. (Are you including Din Sync?)RegardsMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 DIN Sync can be done via the expansion port, or you could reuse some of the MIDI sockets. For example, the ultracore allows connections to the PIC18F4620's UART (which is buggy in old versions of this chip)... so there's one MIDI In/Out socket pair for them even though some people might not use it, and then another four MIDI In/Out socket pairs for the four IIC_MIDI modules on the ultracore. If DIN Sync is a feature for which you really want DIN sockets on the panel, maybe it's worth using the first MIDI In/Out socket pair for this, or the fourth IIC_MIDI In/Out. Otherwise, you could use a female DIN plug connected through the expansion port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 In case people were curious, here's the PCB layout as a screenshot and PDF printout (A2 page!)And YES, that is a split in the middle, the PCB will come in two parts and require some wiring between them using cut resistor leads.This was done to make it easily produced and shipped - the combined PCB is 16.6" wide, and gold phoenix (the place I got the MB-6582 PCBs) have a max dimension of 14.5" (at least for prototypes, but I'm assuming production runs are the same).bugfight has graciously offered to run the bulk order for the cut resistor leads.MB-SEQ_V3_PCB_snapshot_47.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 wow i didn't even know this thread was going. now i have to decide whether to throw out my original seq design, ignore yours, or build both!if anybody is getting in on this project and missed the ultracore group buy, send me a pm. i'm out for now but over time maybe enough orders would build up that another run could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Would it be more advantageous to use a couple of the dual-row pin headers we're all so accustomed to?If the front panel needed to be dissassembled for any reason, unplugging a handful of headers to seperate the boards would be much less painful, and you could take only half the board out at a time.If space is a consideration, these headers could of course be mounted on the reverse of the PCBs.This method would also make shorts between connecting wires much less likely.(Assuming of course that we actually use the pin header, and don't try to save the 20c...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xarolium Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 It is awsome work Wilba of course i'm in for one kitAnd what about the Box? do you want to use a standart box or do you want to make a box specialy fir this project?thank a lot for your work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Would it be more advantageous to use a couple of the dual-row pin headers we're all so accustomed to?Advantageous: yes. Possible: probably not. It's very tight layout around there. If the front panel needed to be dissassembled for any reason, unplugging a handful of headers to seperate the boards would be much less painful, and you could take only half the board out at a time.You couldn't do that if the board was one piece anyway. Once those wires are soldered using solid resistor leads (not flexible multi-strand wire), it will effectively be one PCB. Note there's connections across all three parts of the split, so it's sort of reinforced, it can't just bend along one "seam" because the other two are preventing it. The plan is to mount both parts of the PCB to the panel, using switch caps to align them perfectly with panel holes, then do the joining of the PCBs with cut resistor leads on the back side, i.e. bent U-shapes that fit the hole spacing, then solder the joints on the other side for extra strength.If the fab does their job right, those edges should be so exact that they fit together with no gap and the switch caps on either side will align with the holes.This method would also make shorts between connecting wires much less likely.A resistor lead will have plenty of clearance from the pads it's going between... I doubt shorts will be a problem; that's the beauty of solder mask! It should be no harder than soldering a ribbon cable to an LCD. The paranoid (like me) can check for shorts between adjacent pads. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 And what about the Box? do you want to use a standart box or do you want to make a box specialy fir this project?I am curious to know how many people would be interested in using an ultracore PCB with a custom-made MB-SEQ V3 control surface PCB and a matching custom-made, laser-cut, power coated, silk screened, sheet steel sloping keyboard/desktop style case, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukas412 Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I'm getting really excited for this. I have been wanting a mbseq for a long time now. The pcb looks great thanks for the hard work Wilba.Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugfight Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 hehe the very very rare .1% cut resistor lead will require special handling....i will not only have to buy the .1% resistors, but cut them in a "divide by zero" booth,which is very pricey to rent out here in the states...also: you mentioned 10 midi jacks, shouldn't it be 6? seq only supports 2 ins, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 also: you mentioned 10 midi jacks, shouldn't it be 6? seq only supports 2 ins, no?Holy guacamole, he's right! Actually he's wrong and right!I got fooled into thinking MB-SEQ supported MIDI In from all the IIC_MIDI modules because the ultracore has MIDI In for each of the four IIC_MIDI modules.But the MB-SEQ only supports MIDI In for the first IIC_MIDI module. Pays to read the complete doco I guess... So that's MIDI In/Out for the core (2 sockets), MIDI In and Out for IID_MIDI #1 (+2 sockets), and MIDI Out for IIC_MIDI #2, #3, #4 (+3 sockets).= 7 sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 so my plan worked!muahahahahahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Wellington Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Considering some poor guy is going to run a bulk order from Digi-Key for the switches and button caps anyway, surely buying 500 of these sockets wouldn't be much more hassle.OK, am I just too tired to have caught the meaning here? I'm ordering a bunch of these for the MB-808, so do you want me to order a bunch extra for a group buy? Or are you going to order some and I should get them from you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 OK, am I just too tired to have caught the meaning here? I'm ordering a bunch of these for the MB-808, so do you want me to order a bunch extra for a group buy? Or are you going to order some and I should get them from you?err... you must be tired, the switches and button caps for this MB-SEQ are not the same as the MB-808 - they're the same as the x0xb0x though.I'm not suggesting you or anyone else run a Digi-Key bulk order yet... but it would make sense that the "poor guy" who does it gets the sockets too, and it would be a fixed set bulk order eg. everyone gets 60 switches, 60 black caps, 7 sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugfight Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Holy guacamole, he's right! Actually he's wrong and right!bugfight only pawn in game of math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phattline Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 In case people were curious, here's the PCB layout as a screenshot and PDF printout (A2 page!)Oh dam I´m really interestet for 2 Kits, comes what comes :oI will be happy ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Wellington Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 err... you must be tired, the switches and button caps for this MB-SEQ are not the same as the MB-808 - they're the same as the x0xb0x though.No, silly... the MIDI sockets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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