blue_lu Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 same here - I am going from white opaque to mate black...NICE! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KruLLo Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 How about white matte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Ok, now I am interrested again. This new design looks a bit easier to build and the fact that it comes in kits help a lot. But as usual I have to ask two daft questions before I sign up to the black-matte version(unless there is a orange-matte coming).1, Why should I build a sammichSID and not buy a Hardsid4u? Why is the Sammich better?2, Considering that I have ZERO electronic tools, what tools must I buy to build a Sammich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 1) Compare the features of http://ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual.html with http://www.hardsid.com/. You decide. 2) A soldering iron, solder, a pair of wire clippers and a phillips head screwdriver. Nail clippers can double as wire clippers and a lot of household goodies you prolly have around can double as a screwdriver. So technically, a soldering iron and solder will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 1) Compare the features of http://ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual.html with http://www.hardsid.com/. You decide. 2) A soldering iron, solder, a pair of wire clippers and a phillips head screwdriver. Nail clippers can double as wire clippers and a lot of household goodies you prolly have around can double as a screwdriver. So technically, a soldering iron and solder will do.ok...1, I didn't get a clear picture of the difference from those pages. It seems like the midibox is 2 voice and the hardsid4u is 4 voice and has a VST-plugin editor, but then there is the poly-mode on the MIDIBOX that confuse me... I would really appreciate if somebody rack up a few differences.2, That seems pretty basic, any minimum requriments for a soldering iron? I had a quick google and found models from5 bucks an up way over 200 bucks so I assume there is a difference :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 1) Hadsid4u = 4 sids, sammichSID = 2 sids, mb6582 = 8 sids. Pick one.If you can't tell the difference in the power of the synth engines and the general overall concept etc. from reading both user manuals, then I guess it totally doesn't matter which one you get. One thing for instance: Do you see any MIDI In/Out jacks on the hardsid? Read up on the synth engine(s), check out which parameters can be changed w/o a PC... Read, read, read ;)2) something in the $20 range should do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 2, Considering that I have ZERO electronic tools, what tools must I buy to build a Sammich? I'm in the process of writing the construction guide, in which I will specify what tools you need.The absolute bare minimum would be the same bare minimum for anyone doing any electronics:soldering ironwire cutterslong nose (needle nose) pliersPhilips head screwdrivermultimeterdesolder wick/braid (for fixing soldering mistakes)Optional, but really nice to have tools:temperature controlled soldering ironIC extractor tool (the cheap kind that looks like tongs)digital multimeter with continuity tester (beeps when both probes touch same "track")desoldering pump/"solder sucker"soldering tip refresherPeople might assume I am so into electronics that I have the best tools available - I do not. I have a really cheap temperature controlled soldering iron ($100), cheapest digital multimeter with continuity tester ($50?), cheap wire cutters and pliers ($10 each, and still good after a decade of abuse), etc. I'm assuming most people planning to build a sammichSID either have built some electronics already or are keen to do more afterwards, so the expense of tools is spread out over a few projects. Even if you spend $200 on tools to build a $200 SID synth, it's still a bargain compared to a HardSID 4U or second-hand SidStation on eBay.But if spending that much on tools is a problem, surely someone amongst your network of electronic musician friends is into electronics and could help you out? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'm in the process of writing the construction guide, in which I will specify what tools you need.The absolute bare minimum would be the same bare minimum for anyone doing any electronics:soldering ironwire cutterslong nose (needle nose) pliersPhilips head screwdrivermultimeterdesolder wick/braid (for fixing soldering mistakes)Optional, but really nice to have tools:temperature controlled soldering ironIC extractor tool (the cheap kind that looks like tongs)digital multimeter with continuity tester (beeps when both probes touch same "track")desoldering pump/"solder sucker"soldering tip refresherPeople might assume I am so into electronics that I have the best tools available - I do not. I have a really cheap temperature controlled soldering iron ($100), cheapest digital multimeter with continuity tester ($50?), cheap wire cutters and pliers ($10 each, and still good after a decade of abuse), etc. I'm assuming most people planning to build a sammichSID either have built some electronics already or are keen to do more afterwards, so the expense of tools is spread out over a few projects. Even if you spend $200 on tools to build a $200 SID synth, it's still a bargain compared to a HardSID 4U or second-hand SidStation on eBay.But if spending that much on tools is a problem, surely someone amongst your network of electronic musician friends is into electronics and could help you out? ;)Thank you for a thorough explanation Wilba. Is this the kind of cheap controlled soldering iron you refer to? https://www1.elfa.se/elfa~eu_en/b2b/catalogstart.do?tab=catalogIf I will make anything else after the Midibox is a matter of if I manage to get a working midibox and how many hours of aggravation it take to do it. If it is a success I will most likely want to build more stuff like some modules for my Doepfer modular, but I don't expect too so if I spend more than 200 on the tools it will cost more than a HardSid4u which is 399 now. So I guess moneywise it is about the same, but the Midibox looks cooler.I saw a soldering tutorial with a sort of wise to hold the material, is that useless for this kind of project?It surprice me somehow that I have not found a thread here on the forum where people suggest which tools to buy and what online-store that have good prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Just decided and signed up for the sammichSID kit!There are lots of people before me in line so I will have plenty of time to figure out what tools to buy and perhaps even test them out on some crap project or something until it is my turn. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylehaze Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 It surprice me somehow that I have not found a thread here on the forum where people suggest which tools to buy and what online-store that have good prices.http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,14031.0.htmlWe discuss "what" more than "where", probably because we are from all different countries.Here's some tool kits, but I don't like the irons they use:http://curiousinventor.com/store/category/40but if you're not in the states, it's probably easier to find these things in your own area.Have Fun,LyleHaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Thank you Lyle, helping hands definitely seems like something I will use. Last time I tried to solder together a simple lampcord it slid around the table and I burned a mark in the table :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 If I will make anything else after the Midibox is a matter of if I manage to get a working midibox and how many hours of aggravation it take to do it. If it is a success I will most likely want to build more stuff like some modules for my Doepfer modular, but I don't expect too so if I spend more than 200 on the tools it will cost more than a HardSid4u which is 399 now. So I guess moneywise it is about the same, but the Midibox looks cooler.I was guessing US$200 for tools, and that's overestimating for minimal (cheapest) tools. The tools I used to build mine didn't total that.But I notice you're comparing Euros to U.S. dollars:HardSID 4U = 399 Euros = 587 U.S. dollarssammichSID = 139 Euros = 205 U.S. dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I was guessing US$200 for tools, and that's overestimating for minimal (cheapest) tools. The tools I used to build mine didn't total that.But I notice you're comparing Euros to U.S. dollars:HardSID 4U = 399 Euros = 587 U.S. dollarssammichSID = 139 Euros = 205 U.S. dollarsYes, but I included the tools and the shipping and change things a bit.HardSID 4U = 399 Euros = 587 U.S. dollarssammichSID = 139 Euros = 205 U.S. dollars + tools* for 160 euros*Tools that seems sensible to useHelping Hands = 25 eurosSome Pliers = 20 euroA good cutter = 10 euroWeller soldering station 90(cheapest in Sweden) euros(after reading recommendations, it seems to that a newbie like me has a greater chance of success with a soldering station that can set the heat so I don't burn stuff)Solder wire and misc = 15 eurosSo for a newbie it amounts to about the same kind of cash. Anyway I have decided to go for the sammichSID (and maybe a hardsid4 too) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 The tools I listed are the ones I used when building my sammich prototype (I did indeed forget the multimeter). Pliers 9,95 EUR: http://www.pollin.de/shop/detail.php?pg=NQ==&a=MDg4OTk0OTk=Soldering iron 4,50 EUR: http://www.pollin.de/shop/detail.php?pg=NQ==&a=OTg4OTUxOTk=Multimeter 3,95 EUR: http://www.pollin.de/shop/detail.php?pg=NQ==&a=NDI3OTYxOTk=Solder 3,50 EUR: http://www.pollin.de/shop/detail.php?pg=NQ==&a=ODQ5OTUxOTk=================21,90 EUR == $32 USThis list is missing the screwdriver, cause I haven't bought one recently and hence don't have a link to one. But well, a euro more or less...That's exactly what I used to build mine. And it's sufficient. And way cheaper than $200US ;)Nicer (and usually more expensive) tools are a great thing though, but you can always upgrade your tools when you decide to stick with DIY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 In recent years I had to rebuild most of my house. I bought cheap tools and soon realised that they either broke down, made me work much slower or give a bad end result. A real pro workman can cut joinery and bords straight with a plain hand saw. I could not. So in the end I had to buy new better tools anyway. I am totally new to electronics, but I have a fear that bad tools will increase my chances of making a mess of the project. So when(if I get a kit) I will build it I will atleast get things that the majority of you think are the least demanding to use in a reasonable price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theta_Frost Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 What kind of time frame should we be looking at for the various batches? It'd be helpful to know by what time I should have the money scrapped up. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Money now. Kits laterâ„¢ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00dawg Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 It's bugging me not to say anything so...in terms of MB-SID or HardSID, the differentiation should be whether or not you enjoy or want to build your own. I would say if you don't like the idea of soldering components together, designing control surfaces, etc., get the HardSID. I think MB-SID has better features myself and, in my case, I love building stuff like this.In other words, I would say don't buy an MB-SID kit if you don't like the idea of building one. The HardSID people did all the hard work for you and you probably get a warranty that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hard Sid - for people who like VSTs, and controlling a synth with the use of a computer.Midibox Sid, for hardware people, who dont want to boot up a computer everytime they want to use a synth.Midibox Sid with full conrol surface -> for people who like dedicated knobs, with names, who dont like staring at screen to control a synth.Elektron Sidstation -> for people with lots of money who dont want to solder a far superior sid synthesizer themselves.Id love to see the flame war thread that got deleted on the elektron forum btw,If anyone can find it send me a pm, im very curious as to see the reasons they thought the sidstation was better,apart from that you dont have to DIY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Id love to see the flame war thread that got deleted on the elektron forum btw,If anyone can find it send me a pm, im very curious as to see the reasons they thought the sidstation was better,apart from that you dont have to DIY.The flame war was about the MIDIbox licence, along the lines of "Why can't I sell my MIDIbox? Why can't I pay for someone to build a MIDIbox?", not which synth is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 In recent years I had to rebuild most of my house. I bought cheap tools and soon realised that they either broke down, made me work much slower or give a bad end result. A real pro workman can cut joinery and bords straight with a plain hand saw. I could not. So in the end I had to buy new better tools anyway. I am totally new to electronics, but I have a fear that bad tools will increase my chances of making a mess of the project. So when(if I get a kit) I will build it I will atleast get things that the majority of you think are the least demanding to use in a reasonable price range.It's not fair to compare cheap hardware tools with cheap electronic tools... stuff with motors in it that cut, drill, sand etc. are liable to break down, and the cheap tools aren't made to last. A multimeter has no moving parts and doesn't suffer from wear and overuse... and even wire cutters will keep cutting wire after being abused. I'm just saying there's a difference between a cheap and expensive tool used for electronics, and the differences typically are features you will never use, or some brand name or warranty implying it's going to last.I'm not suggesting you have to get stuff as cheap as nILS did, but there's a middle ground... I would suggest paying a little extra for a temperature controlled soldering iron and get the rest cheap. That's where you will notice the extra money spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylehaze Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 It's funny that you said it that way...I'll agree that you shouldn't have to spend hundreds on tools so that you can build a $30 core..But I will confess, I am a soldering iron snob. Having used a temp controlled iron, I could never go back,and I do believe that temperature control is all but required for PCB work, to avoid overheatingcomponents or traces.I need to qualify that: You CAN do damage with a temp controlled iron, it's just that you have to be a little more deliberate to do it. It's very easy to do accidental damage with a non-temp iron, since it's temperature will vary based on a lot of different details.I also think a temp controlled iron will give new techies a much better chance at being successful,and that is important too.But it's all just my opinion. I COULD build a Sammich with a cheaper iron, but I've been soldering for longer than many people here have been alive :)Buy a cheap meter, get cheap needlenose and cutters if you're on a budget. But if you can affordan iron that has a thermostat, even if it's not adjustable, get it.. because bad soldering will only pissyou off, and that's no way to enjoy your Sammich. This is ALL just my opinion. If you don't like it, ignore it. :-)LyleHaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well I am on the waiting list now and if I get a kit I will go by the advice from Lyle and Wilba and get a temperature controlled solder station like Wellers model 40 which is about 90 euros in my part of the world. Cause I don't want to risk burning any components - and if it is easy with a manual iron - trust me it will happen to me :) AS for pliers and stuff I have a few so that is covered perhaps.But it surprice me that none of you advice or getting some vice or helping hands to hold the board while working on it. How many hands do you guys have? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philetaylor Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Personally I have a "helping hands" and I hardly ever use it, I find that I am continuously removing the board to check things and that slows the whole process down (for me). You will notice that most assembly guides start with the thinnest components (resistors, diodes etc) and finish with large capacitors and sockets etc. One reason for this is if you install the components and then place the board upside down on a flat surface they will not fall out while soldering! Some people also 'splay' the leads slightly so that they hold themselves in the board, I try not to do this as the eventual solder joint looks lopsided :)There has been some really good advice on this thread, the only thing I would add is a good pair of small side-cutters. They make cutting the soldered leads much easier and I find that ones that are too large tend to bend the leads before cutting them and it looks a bit untidy.CheersPhil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 The flame war was about the MIDIbox licence, along the lines of "Why can't I sell my MIDIbox? Why can't I pay for someone to build a MIDIbox?", not which synth is better.Ah cool! Sure i suppose they couldnt find any reason why the sidstation is better, apart from that you can buy one! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.