latigid on

midiphy SEQ v4+

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Just wondering, are you able to give an estimated ballpark figure for the price of the complete kit?

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You can plan for around 700€ all up, including the case and Mouser order. Not fixed yet though.

Best,
Andy

Edited by latigid on
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Just now, latigid on said:

You can plan for around 700€ all up, including the case and Mouser order.

That's a really good price for a Seq in this category(heavyweight)! There's no more solid concurrence now ;)

Someone outside the forum, who already has a regular V4, asked me if except the layout there's major changes in the hardware.
I answered him that there's no internal changes but that the frontpanel itself changes a lot of things and I shared with him the original thread(new frontpanel idea).

In a few lines could you enumerate the frontpanel changes and what's new in terms of functionality or ergonomics? if it's not already summarized somewhere. You are in the best position to answer this question.

Thank you.
Bruno

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Hi Bruno,

 

large.product-sheet-label-montage5-small

 

The operation is quite different in that the group/track/layer buttons are now accessed through the Selection row. The selection row function is in turn switched by the 8 buttons around the larger wheel knob. So now you would choose Track; this gives access to the tracks on all 16 buttons. The Group structure (G1/2/3/4) is preserved to maintain compatibility. A big benefit is that multiple selections are now possible, which would have been quite difficult with the old workflow. Another benefit is that the Selection row can stay active while using the GP buttons above. Layers are accessed in a similar way. Hopefully the labeling is more intuitive now, and users don't feel limited to 3 layers of trig/para. Bookmarks are now brought out to the front panel.

With the MEC buttons, there's functionality not explicitly present in the v4 (e.g. Live). Also, each encoder has an independent switch, so no one should run out of buttons. Normally the switches would be assigned to acceleration though.

Maybe Peter can fill in anything I've missed.

Best,
Andy

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Ok, no problem, can write down my thoughts of the v4+ vs the v4, trying to be as neutral as possible.

But first of all, thanks so much for the facebook ads, Bruno! :)
We got a few new youtube subscribers within the last hours, so I was wondering what was going on, hehe! ;-)

Regarding the v4+, by coincidence, i have given it an extended test-drive last night, just the v4+ and a Kawai K3M (that happened to somehow come to a rest on my doorstep lately, i really don't know how it happened!!! :). Gladly, the better half did not take note of it yet, otherwise the Nudelholz would have been swung at my poor head again! :)).

Differences of v4+ to the v4. Really, this is not meant to be a sales text - we fortunately don't depend on selling the kits (as we have other jobs) and also hope to be able to provide fair prices, long term. We do it, because we love these things!

Key differences v4/v4+, personal viewpoint:
* The Matias switches with proper large-scale keycaps themselves. In my opinion, they are just so much better than the previous generation of switches/caps used in the classic v4s. If you like mechanical keyboards, it is a dream! In computer nerd talk, to me it feels like an upgrade from HDDs to SSDs :)
* The second row of matias switches and the new "v4+" selection row mode, that can be chosen using the right-hand mode selection "wheel". Imho, it adds a whole level of interactivity while eliminating a lot of page-switches. E.g., last night, i spent probably an hour in the "transpose page" (that is controlled with the primary "GP" row of Matias switches and the encoders). Using the new selection mode wheel, i also at the same time ended up in "Selection: Mute mode", that is then assigned to the secondary row of Matias switches. Now, on a single SEQ page you can mute/unmute single tracks, while also transposing whole groups of selected tracks - that was really a lot of fun :). On the v4, this would of course work, too, but would require menu page switches for every new mute/unmute or transposition change, here you can just stay on a single screen and use the 32 matias switches for both functions at once. As the mode wheel acts as a mix-in feature, you can effectively control two things on a single page and there are lots of combination possibilities.
* Direct track access. Yes, i had grown used to the four+four Seq v4 Group and Track buttons, but using 16 buttons to directly choose a track or a multi-selection of tracks, that will also be highlighted via backlit Matias switches, is a big advantage.
* The look & feel. Ok, i only have a shabby old selfmade v4 and a secondary selfmade quite flat v4, but the OLEDs and Adrians nice metal case, as well as the integration of every PCB in that really compact case feels good. I have to admit, that i really love the VFDs on my my ancient v4. But the OLEDs also have zero latency/ghosting and look fantastic in white, i will adjust to them in time! :)
* The (possible) color bling. Ok, this is a personal preference :).

Other than that: if you have a v4, and if you like it and if the keys are not failing: keep it, it is great!
Many new features of the v4+ will likely be instantly available as a function for the v4 as well, if you have a new STM32F4 core in there.

--

Regarding prices: as Andy wrote, we are currently estimating around 700-750€ in total costs, but it is not fixed yet, that sum is likely to be split up into:
* Core PCBs + essential parts kit ~ 99€ (available in the shop)
* UI PCBs + essential parts kit ~ 299€ (working on it, validation is ongoing, all parts in stock)
* Case ~ 159€ (Adrian is printing the new case labels to test them this week, the case has been adjusted for better optional 3U rack integration)
* Mouser parts ~ 150-200€ (that position is a bit unsure yet and is just an estimation)

The UI kit is a bit expensive, as it contains the OLEDs (~100€ for both), the Matias switches, keycaps and Superflux LEDs, as well as five large-size PCBs and two LED mini matrices. But it effectively also contains a TPD, that is integrated in the case and uses up the last bit of available space (much to the dismay of Andy and Adrian, sorry guys, that i had that last-minute wish, i really feel bad about it, but you would not have needed to incorporate it, despite me begging for it! :))

The Mouser parts could probably be optimized to drive total costs to sub 700€, by sourcing from cheaper parts sellers, but we will only provide the Mouser "master" cart. While i personally had good experience e.g. with sourcing cheap resistor/cap kits from China, and e.g. MIDI connectors can be bought for a lot less than the mouser price, there are different opinions to this. I would say: you will probably build this only once, to last for at least a decade or two, so i'd recommend to use the best parts you can source!

Many greets!
Peter

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Thanks, Bruno, it is great to see, that there is interest in the SEQ out there! Amazing response!

Many greets,
Peter

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This is fantastic! The case is often the point when a build goes in the backlog boxes, at least for me. This looks amazing, will be fun to build (and play). sign me up

Edited by rosch
typo

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On 9/4/2018 at 6:26 PM, Hawkeye said:

Regarding the v4+, by coincidence, i have given it an extended test-drive last night, just the v4+ and a Kawai K3M (that happened to somehow come to a rest on my doorstep lately, i really don't know how it happened!!! :). Gladly, the better half did not take note of it yet, otherwise the Nudelholz would have been swung at my poor head again! :)).

Hihi, this Nudelholz  will become famous, can we get a picture of it ? lol :decayed:

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36 minutes ago, Antichambre said:

Hihi, this Nudelholz  will become famous, can we get a picture of it ? lol :decayed:

Haha, it's definitely too bloody to show here! :decayed:

@roschthanks a lot! :)

What we can show, is progress on the case! Adrian sent us this pic of the unpainted left-hand-jogwheel version directly from his workshop today. So, that's how the (probably) final case looks without paint/labels, during assembly/fit test. It has been slightly reduced in height to fit properly in a 3U rack, as an alternative to using it in normal desktop mode. It also features the cutouts for the beat LED and the two new 8x8 matrix LEDs (TPD).

large.HallikEngineeringv4PlusAssembly-sm

Now, while the cases are being painted, labeled and stocked, you can think about whether you rather want the left-handed or rather the right-handed jogwheel version :grin:.

Enjoy and have a great day!
Peter

 

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This question was asked on the midiphy Facebook Page.

Quote

Can I program fractional beats on any beat, like nested tuplets? If this can do what the Yamaha Qx1 did I would be convinced

Anyone know the answer?

Can you have different timings on each track?

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6 hours ago, Smithy said:

This question was asked on the midiphy Facebook Page.

Anyone know the answer?

Can you have different timings on each track?

another idea would be to use the delay on that track with triplet timing. Not sure about odder (1/5, 1/7) tuplets though.

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Sneak preview of the new Seq V4+ UI PCBs & essential parts kit - arranging that stuff on the photo table took, well, too long! :) After the first few shots were in, the little one stormed the room and rattled on the table, she is cleary no fan of ordered stuff :)

2e7943458f9ea15ec481cf601fa860ab.jpg


We'll be going to holiday soon (a bit delayed shipping in the shop, sorry!). Meanwhile, Andy is working on the validation of these new v4+ UI PCBs, and after all of that, we hope to be able sell this new UI kit (probably somewhen around mid October). By then, there should also be some progress on the case. Generally it all looks good - it should be possible that you can have a working v4+ under the 2018 x-mas tree :)

Many greets and enjoy!
Peter

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Is the case only available to buy as a whole unit ?

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At the moment that's the idea, yes. What customisation did you have in mind?

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Sorry if I missed this, but how much SMT soldering is there?  I prefer thru-hole, not so much because of the soldering but because I can actually see the components...

This looks amazing, but it’s definitely the “deluxe.” Not sure I need a sequencer with $120 worth of displays in it. ;)

Edited by jaytee

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I would say it's about 50:50 SMT/THT. I also don't like squinting too much, and that's why the resistor/cap packages are 1206, the transistors and diodes SOT-23 and the chips SOIC or larger. This can be easily done without a microscope. I recommend to use a decent light source and check the joints after. 

People who've never done SMT before are often surprised by how much quicker it can be than through hole. No lead forming, no flipping the board (if you bottom solder), no parts sliding away and no lead clipping. Tack one pad, align the part, finish the other pads. Use a low angle with the iron and heat the pad rather than the pin. Even use a solder sucker to remove excess solder.

 

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This is really great work guys. I am always impressed by all the talent, knowledge and creativity in this community.

Could I suggest that we call this just the Midiphy, so we can differentiate between the Wilba and the Midiphy MB SEQ V4+

If I understand correctly the Midiphy is a new frontpanel. The MB SEQ V4+ relates to the STM32F4 Core and can be used with the Wilba frontpanel, at least that is what I am doing now.

This is no criticism, I am just pointing out a possible area for misunderstanding in the future.

 

My buttons are staring to fail as well, and playing live this weekend it was a bit annoying. 

I have a few questions:

- Can I have my @ilmenator  TPD and BLM 16x4 connected to my V4+ with the Midiphy frontpanel?

- Can I use my STM32F4 Core, 2x MIDI I/O, 2xQuad IIC and AOUT_NG with the Midiphy frontpanel?

- Will there be a DWG/DXF/FPD cad file available to design and order custom frontpanels?

 

Cheers, Hal

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Hi Hal,

Hope you're fine...

38 minutes ago, eptheca said:

If I understand correctly the Midiphy is a new frontpanel.

Midiphy is not a front panel, it's a new MB dedicated webshop!
The MB SEQ V4+ relates to the new frontpanel.
The new core is Andy's wCore based on waveshare core407

I let Andy or Peter answer to your question ;)

Cheers
Bruno

Edited by Antichambre

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Just now, Antichambre said:

Hi Hal,

Hope you're fine...

Midiphy is more than a front panel, it's a new MB dedicated webshop!

Cheers
Bruno
 

Hi Bruno, I'm OK thanks, and you?

OK, yes I see.

But what can we call this version of the MB SEQ V4+

It's just to find a name so we can discuss and troubleshoot the different versions of the MB SEQ V4+

I did not mean to disrespect the webshop :)

 

 

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I'm fine thank you.

Just now, eptheca said:

I did not mean to disrespect the webshop :)

Don't worry for that, It's just that you do not come here often enough :angelnot:
There's no trouble, your version is a MB SEQ V4, this new one is MB SEQ V4+
They don't change the Version because the App, the Sequencer engine remains the same, the UI is the only change.
 

Edited by Antichambre

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3 hours ago, eptheca said:

I have a few questions:

- Can I have my @ilmenator  TPD and BLM 16x4 connected to my V4+ with the Midiphy frontpanel?

- Can I use my STM32F4 Core, 2x MIDI I/O, 2xQuad IIC and AOUT_NG with the Midiphy frontpanel?

- Will there be a DWG/DXF/FPD cad file available to design and order custom frontpanels?

Hi Hal,

thanks for asking :)

Regarding the questions, Bruno already answered the part, that midiphy is the name of the shop. As we should also have another MIDIbox based sequencer called LoopA as an "essential kit" in the shop hopefully soon, it would therefore be best to keep the name of "MIDIbox SEQ v4+" or "midiphy Seq v4+" or whatever you can think of, as long as it contains the v4+. :). That "plus" stands primarily for a general user interface improvement, designed by TK. and Andy over the last two years or so (see old thread).

But the "midiphy Seq v4+" additionally also brings a new case solution, with the case being designed by Hallik Engineering, especially for this hardware, so all fits nicely in the box and will not take away too much room. The v4+ also has really great mechanical-keyboard-style switches, nice OLEDs, two mini LED matrices and lotsa bling :). Also, it should be easy to source/order, with only two orders in total required. As stated before, we do all of this, as we want to push MIDIbox and not enrich ourselves, we try to keep the prices moderate. Midiphy as a shop will also be trying to "host" other interesting MIDIbox user projects as well later on, so that interested users can get easier access to other awesome developments.

To answer your other questions:

* yes, you can reuse all your old v4 PCBs (as long as they are STM32F4 based) to drive the new UI, but they probably would not fit in to Adrian's case (Hallik Engineering).
* yes, you should be able to reuse the TPD and BLM 16x4, if you attach it via the Line Driver expansion board, build a Line Receiver module and attach the BLM/TPD to the SRIO of the LINE-RX PCB. If you build your own (bigger) case, the line drivers might not be required.
* Adrian has designed the v4+ case and spent lots of hours and quite a few (costly) iterations and he has the last word, what should be be public. Personally, I would vote for a publicly available "cutouts DXF", that contains the required holes in the frontpanel, so that users with other core PCBs or another intended case can create their own case while being sure to be able to mount the OLEDs, the two LeMEC boards, the new JA board and the mini matrix properly. But Adrian has the last saying in this.

In the end, exactly as Bruno suggested, the v4+ is "just" a major user interface improvement! Some features of the v4+ will be instantly available on your old v4, but of course the expection are the hardware-centric improvements like the new selection model and the mini matrices. It is likely, that "v4+" designation in the config file defines an "expected set of well-known hardware capabilities", that can then be used by the sequencer app. So, while i expect the firmware itself to stay identical at least for a while, defining "v4+" in the configuration will (for example) switch to the new selection model and require the new UI hardware.

Many greets,
Peter

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Peter, nice work! Also good to see a mini-TPD, albeit this seems to have only a single color?

Are the UI schematics publicly available or do we need to reverse-engineer them based on the v4+ config file? I'm thinking about my own homebrew version using Marquardt switches, I don't like those christmas tree ones you are using :-).

Best, ilmenator

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