Notice the difference between 2 x0xb0xes

[Sasha]

I just received direct comparison samples of 2 boxes from x0xb0x builder. One is with 2sc536F and another with 2SC945P. I`m not expert for 303 sound but you might be.  ;)

x0xb0x 1

saw

square

x0xb0x 2

saw

square

2SC945P seams to be direct replacement for 2SC536F transistor and seams Roland used it on their latest TB-303s.

[seppoman]

Hi,

I'm no expert for xox stuff so I can't really answer the poll - no idea how it *should* sound :) but I've got a slight tendency to like the sound of example 2 better, it has a tiny bit more grittyness whereas 1 is a bit cleaner.

S

[Sasha]

It is not like we are voting for president. ;D I personally don`t build x0x to resemble as much as possible to TB303, I just like that sound. If the box with replacement parts sounds good enough to me, than I`ll build it with replacement if it is easier or cheaper to get. Some people suffer 303 syndrome and tend to  say that nothing is like TB sound. I reckon most of them cant notice the difference.  ::)

[nILS]

I agree with seppo - no idea what it's supposed to sound like but the second one sounds a wee bit more aggressive over here.

[MTE]

Maybe we should compare with original 303-tune....

http://www.ladyada.net/make/x0xb0x/samples.html

[ganchan]

http://www.ladyada.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=652&highlight=2sc536f

here an opinion about.

"the only exception is for q11 and perhaps the transistors that make up the diode ladder"

[asafnetzer]

When hearing both now, the 2SC945P based x0xb0x have more body while the first sample has a flatter sound.

I have looked at http://www.electronicsic.com/sem-2sc.htm they stock both type at the same price $0.79 each

[Sasha]

When hearing both now, the 2SC945P based x0xb0x have more body while the first sample has a flatter sound.

I didn`t said which sample is 2SC945P. :) So you are saying 2nd sample is 2SC945P?

[asafnetzer]

;D I guessed thats what you meant when you wrote one with... the other with... My bad  :o

Still the second sounds better, hope its with 2sc536f, as I already have some,

Can you check which is which ?

[Sasha]

Can you check which is which ?

I know which is which, but not gonna tell you now. I want to hear your thoughts and votes first. ;)

[Goblinz]

I'm no expert, but I prefer the second one. Although they sound pretty similar, the second one has more bite to it.

              G

[xarolium]

i found the Square of the Second X0xb0x better than the other but i couldn't say which transistor is it.

[Kartoshka]

Yep, i concur—second x0x sounds much more pronounced on squares.

i prefer second one as well, and lemme guess....i think it's original 2sc536f in there.

[Kartoshka]

Still the second sounds better, hope its with 2sc536f,

we will know the answer in a week.. ?!

[dj3nk]

I think the 2nd is the (original) 2sc536f

[DavidBanner]

for my ears the samples for 1 sound a lot more like an original 303, the 2nd are a lot cleaner but don't sound as authentic

[Twin-X]

The second is the original to my ears.

[bugfight]

this is gonna be classic when sasha reveals the second to be a casiotone

*whack*

[dj3nk]

but who knows what sound we have in our ears. It depends on what 303 with what ic's we listened too. I dont think all people who used their 303 in a studio has the same chip. So what is "original" at all ?????

sry for bad explanation ;)

[x0xb0xr0ck3r]

but who knows what sound we have in our ears. It depends on what 303 with what ic's we listened too. I dont think all people who used their 303 in a studio has the same chip. So what is "original" at all ?????

sry for bad explanation ;)

Hi everyone!

I'm the guy who recorded the samples.

@ dj3nk:

I absolutely agree with you! When I set out to find a replecement for the 536f, I chose the 945p because the 945 was used in some original 303's, too! In my opinion, this makes it an original part, too. ;)  The "p" model was simply the one that came closest to the 536f in terms of hfe-range.

@ all:

Also, we shouldn't overrate the replacement of the 536f. There are a _lot_ more parts in the analog-section of the x0xb0x than the 24 536f's, and some are a lot more crucial for the sound! Also, to make a _real_ comparison I'd have to take the _same_ x0x and replace all the 536f's with 945p's!

Maybe we should remind ourselves that _every_ 303 sounds a bit different! Because the analogue section of the x0xb0x is nearly identical with the 303, this is also true for the x0xb0x. My both x0xb0xes sound different from each other, but I'd never dare to say that one of them sounds bad, and they both got me the sound I was looking for. One cuts a bit better through the mix which makes it perfect for lead-stuff. Especially whenI flick the switch for the resonance boost mod (which hadn't been activated for the recording). The other one sounds a bit warmer to me and has a better square wave, which makes it great for basslines.

[nebula]

I can definitely hear the difference, but I'm not so sure I have a preference. 

On the sawtooth, both units have their merits, and I would probably use either one.  The second really just sounds a bit more overdriven to me.  Since I have other means of achieving overdrive, I might prefer to have the cleaner sounding unit, because it's much easier to make something clean sound dirty than it is to make something dirty sound clean.

On the square - I think I prefer the sound of the second. 

I'm not voting because I don't have a clue which is using the original component.  But I'm curious to know the truth!

[Sasha]

Thank you LoopStar for showing here and giving your thought about 303 sound. I find this kind of discusions very interesting.

As 7 days have passed I`ll reveal the truth.  :)

x0xb0x 1 has 2SC536F

x0xb0x 2 has 2SC945P

But as LoopStar said, there are other things that affects the sound and we must agree that no 303 sounds the same. They are designed and made to be cheap affordable compact units and not reference synthesizers so they surely differ from each other.

[dj3nk]

so i've lost ;)

[asafnetzer]

x0xb0x 1 has 2SC536F

x0xb0x 2 has 2SC945P

Well, there is no choice now, I will just have to build two x0xb0x's

Sasha, any left over boards ?  ;D

[ganchan]

Nice game LoopStar!

I know the big change is from some of the 2SA733AP or P or.. in some Qx position in the x0x, all documented on ladyada site, so i don't explain here a second time :p

Wich one do you had used for this 2 x0x?

Thankyou for the waves.  ;)